They need to do more of this else where...

quote:

SBY urged to bring militants into line The Jakarta Post, Jakarta Religious leaders from the country's major Muslim organizations and activists have demanded President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono crack down on extremist groups that commit violent acts in the name of religion. Activists grouped in the Alliance for an Antiviolent Society and leaders of Indonesia's largest Muslim organizations, Nahdlatul Ulama and Muhammadiyah, have warned the nation's integrity is under threat from the groups. They urged the police to stop radical groups from taking the law into their own hands. They were responding to a number of violent incidents recently. On Tuesday, the Islam Defenders Front (FPI) demanded former president Abdurrahman "Gus Dur" Wahid leave the podium at an interethnic and religious discussion in Purwakarta, West Java. They said Gus Dur should not have been allowed to attend the discussion because he rejected the pornography bill, and that the discussion should be stopped because the organizer used the term pluralism. In Bekasi, police arrested Bekasi Islam Defenders Front chairman Abdul Qodir, along with 20 other FPI members, last Monday because they had damaged property, including alleged houses of prostitution. Armed with sticks, the group raided several cafes in Kampung Kresek in Pondok Gede, Bekasi, after participating in a mass protest Sunday in support of the pornography bill. Former first lady Sinta Nuriyah Wahid reported the chairman of the Betawi Brotherhood Forum (FBR), Fadloli El Muhir, to Jakarta Police last Monday for allegedly slandering activists who took part in a rally against the pornography bill. Fadloli said during last week's live broadcast on Metro TV that the women who participated in the rally were "evil, wretched women who did not have good morals". The FBR also threatened singer Inul Daratista, telling her to leave the capital, and raided her karaoke lounge in North Jakarta after she appeared in a rally against the bill. The executive director of the International Center for Islam and Pluralism, Syafi'i Anwar, said the phenomenon indicated that the state endorsed violence. "The state must be responsible for protecting its citizens. But what we see now is that the state lets some groups use violence to force their beliefs (on others)," he said. He said the police seemed afraid to act because the groups used Islam as a cover. "Sooner or later, the international world will see this as a threat". Nahdlatul Ulama executive Masdar F Mas'udi said the groups' actions were contrary to Islam. "Islam teaches people not to use violence or to force their beliefs on others." He said their actions should be seen as criminal. "The state has the responsibility, because citizens can make mistakes. However, our President and Vice President have not taken any action, even though they have seen violence happening in this country," he said. Entertainer Rieke Diah Pitaloka said the groups had been singling her out for harassment since she asked the government to issue a policy on the pornography bill. "The police did nothing to protect me". Din Syamsuddin, the chairman of Muhammadiyah, has also expressed concern about the groups' lawlessness. He specifically referred to the harassment of Gus Dur. He urged police not to hesitate to take action against the perpetrators, regardless of whether they claimed to be defenders of Islam. "Muhammadiyah is gravely concerned about the violence a group of people committed in the name of religion," Antara quoted him as saying Thursday in the West Kalimantan capital of Pontianak. "Violence and anarchy undermine the nation's integrity and the democracy that Indonesia is rigorously pursuing," he said. A member of the House of Representatives, Badriyah Fayumi, called on all Indonesian people to respond in a measured way. "Do not fight violence with violence. Let the police handle the problem," she said.(05)

>Source<

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I wouldn't say this is so unusual that hell *has* to have frozen over. There have been similar voices of moderation elsewhere, including Arabic countries. Sadly, it seems that the "live and let live" version of Islam doesn't carry quite the same attraction among rulers and the illiterate masses on the street as the "behead the infidels" one. Meanwhile:

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Iraqis shot 'for wearing shorts' The coach of Iraq's tennis team and two players were shot dead in Baghdad on Thursday, said Iraqi Olympic officials. Coach Hussein Ahmed Rashid and players Nasser Ali Hatem and Wissam Adel Auda were killed in the al-Saidiya district of the capital. Witnesses said the three were dressed in shorts and were killed days after militants issued a warning forbidding the wearing of shorts. Other Iraqi athletes have been targeted in recent incidents. In this case, according to accounts, the men dropped off laundry and were then stopped in their vehicle by gunmen. Two of the athletes stepped out of the car and were shot in the head, said one witness. The third was shot dead in the vehicle. "The gunman took the body out of the car and threw it on top of the other two bodies before stealing the car," said the witness, who requested anonymity. He said leaflets had been recently distributed in the area warning residents not to wear shorts. Last week, 15 members of Iraq's taekwondo team were kidnapped between Falluja and Ramadi, west of Baghdad, said a member of the Iraqi Olympic Committee. The kidnappers have demanded $100,000 for their release.

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Hell as frozen over...Muslims asking for crackdown on Muslim extremists groups

I can see why this would make you so happy (there seems to be some sort of culture amongst certain circles that all Muslims either are or support extremist Islam) but come on, where have you been for the last, what, half a century?!

Muslims are the ones that have been cracking down on extremist Islam sinse extremist Islam burst onto the scene!! The west only started doing it properly after 9/11...

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Originally posted by George Smiley The west only started doing it properly after 9/11...

Properly?

Can you please give some examples of how the West are properly sorting out Muslim Extremists

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quote:

Originally posted by Wicked Neo Properly? Can you please give some examples of how the West are properly sorting out Muslim Extremists

By attacking and invading countries thats how they beat those evil extremists.

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quote:

Originally posted by Wicked Neo Properly? Can you please give some examples of how the West are properly sorting out Muslim Extremists

Properly as in giving it the attention it warrants, or taking the threat more seriously than they did before 9/11

And I'm not sure whether your question is rhetorical or not but I'll answer anyway...

The Afghan war is the main example of the West sorting out extremist Islam, other examples are the intelligence operations going on throughout the world. Obviously there is still much more that needs to be done (eg winning hearts and minds) but the Middle Eastern regimes have been battling against extremist Islam since the begining of Political Islam (bout the 40s I think in Egypt?) which is hardly suprising as it is those regimes, not the West (as we believe, or are led to believe) that is the true target of Islamic extremism.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r >Source<

This is really excellent news. Thanks for the share Firestarter!

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic I wouldn't say this is so unusual that hell *has* to have frozen over. There have been similar voices of moderation elsewhere, including Arabic countries. Sadly, it seems that the "live and let live" version of Islam doesn't carry quite the same attraction among rulers and the illiterate masses on the street as the "behead the infidels" one.

Exactly. A similar event happened a while back to a Muslim who converted to Christianity in Iraq and everybody wanted him beheaded. For me that was extreme and should not be allowed. Hopefully they crack down on those guys as well.

Last edited by stevieboy32808 on May-28-2006 at 18:22

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley I can see why this would make you so happy (there seems to be some sort of culture amongst certain circles that all Muslims either are or support extremist Islam) but come on, where have you been for the last, what, half a century?! Muslims are the ones that have been cracking down on extremist Islam sinse extremist Islam burst onto the scene!! The west only started doing it properly after 9/11...

While I agree that the West has been slow on this one, I don't think that saying "Muslims have been cracking down on extremism" is any less of an unjustified generalization than "Muslims are extremists":

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Understanding Saudi Arabia, is it a Friend or Foe? Since it was discovered that 15 out of the 19 September 11 hijackers were Saudis, every aspect of Saudi Arabia has come under scrutiny by members of the U.S. government, advocacy organizations and members of the media. Ironically, the increased scrutiny of Saudi Arabia has not brought America any closer to understanding Saudi Arabia. The confusion about Saudi Arabia is in part due to the credibility of the parties who have made irreconcilable conclusions about whether Saudi Arabia is an ally in the war on terror. On one hand, President Bush, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and former Deputy Secretary Paul Wolfowitz have argued that Saudi Arabia is a strong ally in the war on terror and a great friend to the United States. On the other hand, certain members of congress, various think tanks and other non-profit organizations have argued passionately that Saudi Arabia is no friend of the United States and a major supporter of extremist ideologies and groups. Most recently a Washington Post article written by Nina Shea of the Center for Religious Freedom at Freedom House revealed language from Saudi text books that encourage an ideology of hatred towards Christians, Jews and Muslims who don’t follow the Saudi version of Islam (Wahabism). Nina Shea argued that the disturbing material found in Select Saudi text books “are shaping the views of the next generation of Saudis and Muslims world wide. Unchanged, they will only harden and deepen hatred, intolerance and violence toward other faiths ad cultures.” So is the Saudi Arabian government a friend of the United States or does Saudi Arabia propagate hate and intolerance among American Muslims and Muslims world wide? The answer to both of these questions is yes. The Saudi Arabian government is a great friend to the United States and at the same time many in Saudi Arabia, including some who receive government funding propagate hate and intolerance against anyone who does not share their Wahabi inspired ideology. The answers to both these questions may seem inconsistent and counter intuitive but these seemingly inconsistent answers reflect the complexity of modern day Saudi Arabia. By now everyone has heard of the historic compact between the Saudi Royal Family and the fanatical Wahabi religious establishment. According to this agreement, the Saudi Royal family deals exclusively with matters of state while the Wahabi religious establishment deals with issues of morality which includes substantial control over the education system and the substantive interpretation of Islam. It is this division of power that produces the two faces of Saudi Arabia. As mentioned earlier, the Saudi government is a great friend to the United States. Their assistance in the first and second Gulf war was indispensable to the United States military. For the last 30 years they have implemented policies that supplied cheap energy to the United States and the rest of the world. They support the U.S. dollar by accepting only dollars for their oil and they have underwritten American debt by investing in U.S. government bonds. They also strengthen the U.S. economy by investing billions in the U.S. private sector. For many, it may come as a surprise to hear that the Saudi Royal family is for the most part progressive and if they had their way Saudi Arabia would be a much more tolerant country today. However, to become more tolerant and progressive, Saudi Arabia requires strong leadership that has not existed in that country for the last 30 years. For most of the 20th century, the Saudi royal family was substantially stronger than the Wahabi religious establishment. However, due to shortsighted policies and a lack of leadership from the Saudi government, the Wahabi religious establishment has gained substantial influence in Saudi Arabia. Over the last 30 years, radical Wahabis have become restless and unsatisfied with Saudi Arabia’s historical division of power. In response to the Wahabi’s increasingly assertive demands, the Saudi government adopted a policy of appeasement. The decision to appease the Wahabis has resulted in the legislation of internal social policy that is based on the most extreme common denominator. As is clear, Saudi Arabia’s policy of appeasement has backfired and has resulted in the propagation of a wicked, backward, violent and intolerant interpretation of Islam the likes of which the Muslim world has not experienced in 1400 years of history. In recent years, Saudi Arabia has become a victim of terrorism with several bombings that killed hundreds of people. In response to terrorism on its own soil, the Saudi government has finally declared war on terrorism. It now appears that the Saudi government realizes that the status quo cannot continue and are taking baby steps to reform their policies by organizing tough police actions and ideologically challenging the terrorists’ theological justification for violence. The Free Muslims Coalition regularly monitors Saudi TV and while we have witnessed intolerant rhetoric by radical Wahabi religious figures, we have also witnessed a sharp increase in the number of religious and government figures who aggressively advocate tolerance, respect for other religions and attempt to discredit the ideology that leads to extremism and terrorism. Nevertheless, while we recognize that the Saudi Arabian government has taken steps to fight extremism and terrorism, it is not yet doing enough. Last year, the Free Muslim Coalition Against Terrorism criticized the Saudi Islamic Academy, a Saudi funded elementary school in Virginia, for using textbooks that taught first grade students that Christianity and Judaism are false religions. We were particularly outraged by that text book because it was published after Saudi Arabia vetted its curriculum for intolerant material. Despite our harsh criticism of Saudi practices, we recognize that they are sincerely trying to reform. However, for the sake of long term stability, Saudi Arabia feels that change must be gradual. Truth be told, we recognize the enormous challenges the Saudi government has in correcting more than 30 years of unconditional appeasement. In the mean time, neither the United States nor any other country has to wait on Saudi Arabia to figure out how to reform 30 years of shortsighted policies. The Free Muslim Coalition Against Terrorism makes the following recommendations to protect the United States and American Muslims from the propagation of intolerant material from radical elements in Saudi Arabia: 1. THAT U.S government officials reach an unofficial secret agreement with the Saudi government so that neither the Saudi government nor individual Saudis may build Islamic schools or mosques in the United States. 2. THAT the Saudi government immediately stop the distributing of religious books to American Muslims and American Muslim institutions. 3. THAT The Saudi government terminate the payment of salaries for Imams and other religious figures in the United States. 4. THAT the Saudi government prevent Saudi charities and religious organizations from sending books, building mosques, schools or paying the salaries of Imams in the United States or otherwise operate in the United States. 5. THAT the United States impress upon other nations to implement the steps mentioned above. In conclusion, the Free Muslim Coalition Against Terrorism believes that the building of mosques, Islamic schools and production of religious books must be financed exclusively by American Muslims. By funding their own religious institutions, American Muslims can better protect themselves from the influences of radical groups from abroad. Moreover, the Free Muslims Coalition believes that placing unofficial pressure on Saudi Arabia is in the best interest of the Saudi government. The last few years has shown that the Saudi government takes tough action only if their security is in jeopardy or they can justify tough action by referring to the pressure they are receiving from the rest of the world.

(Source - emphasis mine)

You might also want to check this for an example of a government actually furthering the cause of extremists.

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic While I agree that the West has been slow on this one, I don't think that saying "Muslims have been cracking down on extremism" is any less of an unjustified generalization than "Muslims are extremists": (Source - emphasis mine) You might also want to check this for an example of a government actually furthering the cause of extremists.

Well I didn't mean ALL Muslims! When I said Muslims I was refering to the fact that, contrary to what the original poster was implying, Muslims have been cracking down on extremist Islam since this ideology burst onto the scene.

The original poster gave the impression that the fact that some Muslims are now asking for a crackdown on extremists is somehow a new thing. It's not. And that's all I said

The West has done little or nothing with regards to stopping the spread of radical Islam - if not they actually increased its exansion tenfold by the uses of torture, wars, humiliation, desecration, disrespect, disillusionment etc. etc.

The only people who have ever actually done something positive to slow down this horrendous wave were well educated Muslims. But, unfortunately, what they're doing is tiny when compared to the efforts of USA, Israel and UK who are the major reasons for the increase of radical extremism in more than just Islam and not only in Middle East.

Radicals can see their effects on the media and the population. They understand that no matter how brutal their campaigns are, they are the most effective at spreading their message and does more psycological damage. And until the West reviews their campaign against radical Islam, it will only be a matter of time when a radical group hijacks a country with a nuclear capability and launches an all-out nuclear war to annihilate the world.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium The West has done little or nothing with regards to stopping the spread of radical Islam - if not they actually increased its exansion tenfold by the uses of torture, wars, humiliation, desecration, disrespect, disillusionment etc. etc.

I can agree with that sentiment. I mentioned "winning hearts and minds" earlier and this HAS to go hand in hand with physically fighting Islamic terrorists in places like Iraq or Palestine. The West, unfortunately, seems to be content with just the fighting part, and has given no consideration to winning over Muslims.

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The only people who have ever actually done something positive to slow down this horrendous wave were well educated Muslims. But, unfortunately, what they're doing is tiny when compared to the efforts of USA, Israel and UK who are the major reasons for the increase of radical extremism in more than just Islam and not only in Middle East.

Not sure what your on about with "well educated Muslims"? Middle Eastern regimes have been the ones stamping out radical Islam but they suffer the same problems as the West's approach (to a far greater extent) And it is this - the oppression, lack of freedoms, unrestrainted use of force combined with the failure of these regime's ideology (pan-Arab nationalism) to improve the lives of people in the Middle East - that has, imo, made the most contribution to the rapid spread of extremist Islam.

quote:

Radicals can see their effects on the media and the population. They understand that no matter how brutal their campaigns are, they are the most effective at spreading their message and does more psycological damage. And until the West reviews their campaign against radical Islam, it will only be a matter of time when a radical group hijacks a country with a nuclear capability and launches an all-out nuclear war to annihilate the world.

Erm...

Radical Islamists (adherents to the Political Islam ideology, the same one Al-Qaida follows) do not want to take over or destroy the world!!!

Well-educated Muslims is I mean by not brainwashed ones. The ones that believe in Islam, and see that it is used incorrectly by some as a tool for extremism and destruction, hatred, and other factors. Of course Muslim countries are far behind the Western World when it comes to freedom, equality, freedom of speech, etc. Women for example are considered as property of men, as insane as that may be.

Radicals dont want to take over the world, you misunderstood me. Nuclear weapons are not for that. They're for destroying the enemies which radicals hate so much and cant wait for revenge. The problem with a nuclear warhead launching is that it can start a whole nuclear war (if USA thinks Russia is attacking it, etc), that can bring an end to us.

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