I think I would have to go with the Ecler Nuo4, just for the basic fact of the EXTREME difference in price... I know that the shop here in town has the Nuo4 for about 999, and the DJM800 is something like 2500.. I don't know much about the MIDI on 800...

Well if you can afford the 800, I think that's all you'll ever need right there.

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quote:

Originally posted by dj_palm why not compare with ecler nuo5? its a great mixer as i know.

Because he wants MIDI controller functionality...

I'm starting to think this midi controller functionality is a little over-rated. I mean, it's great that it's there, and it can certainly be VERY nice, but I don't think it's quite as functional as everybody at first thinks it is.

Take the DJM-800 for example. Lets say you have CDJ's and ableton. Now you have a choice of how you route your audio on the ableton front: You mix everything you're doing in ableton in the software (the eq's, effects, etc.), and have one master output from your laptop going into your DJM-800.

Then you assign the various MIDI controls on the DJM to Abletons EQ's, crossfader, etc. Great. But you have to remember that a MIDI assigned control also still controls the audio that might be coming in on that channel.

Therfore you can't have the master out of your laptop running into one of the channels where you have your MIDI controls for the ableton tracks assigned, and you wouldn't want those MIDI controls to trigger ableton when you have your CDJ's audio running through that channel.

The other option is have 2 (or 3 or more) outputs from the laptop running into separate audio channels on the DJM-800, and therefore do all the actual audio mixing on the mixer. That works, but then your mix automation isn't recorded in ableton. Crap.

The Xone:3D gets around this by having separate sections of the mixer for audio versus MIDI. Unfortunately this is out of many peoples price range.

What Pioneer could have done to make this WAY better, would be to put a matrix control (Ala Denon DN-X1500 or Urei 1620) on top of each channel. They could provide a couple extra line inputs on the back, and allow the user to "select" between them using the matrix inputs. Then make all the midi control specific to the selected matrix input.

Select your CDJ, and MIDI controls go off. Select ableton, and they go on. If you don't use the line-in's on the back, then that matrix input is midi only. Easy!

Perhaps they could even provide an input that's tied directly into the mixers POST. Therefore you could dump your main ableton output into the mixer, but not provide real "audio mixer" control over it, since that's all being done in the software.

So in the end, a lot of people who are getting the DJM-800 end up using an external controller in conjunction with it anyway. Even with the possible enhancements I suggest above, you still don't have an easy way to launch clips.

quote:

Originally posted by J:\Digital Because he wants MIDI controller functionality...

Ryan, you're right about the MIDI on the DJM-800...its a little bit of an afterthought, or a gimmick, if you ask me. Its there, but it hasnt been well impemented.

The NUO4, on the other hand, is more like the XONE:3d. You have 4 audio channels AND the center MIDI strip, which functions independently of the audio channels. In the center strip alone, you have 72 MIDI commands.

Channels 2/3 ALSO become MIDI channels in their MIDI mode, so the gains, EQ's, faders, and x-fader become MIDI controls as well...

So all in all, you have 89 MIDI messages! Plus with the included CONTROL4LAB software, you can customize each and every MIDI knob/button and save different profiles and settings....so its actually very useful.

Yeah that certainly sounds like more thought out midi control to me...

quote:

Originally posted by Soundwerks Ryan, you're right about the MIDI on the DJM-800...its a little bit of an afterthought, or a gimmick, if you ask me. Its there, but it hasnt been well impemented. The NUO4, on the other hand, is more like the XONE:3d. You have 4 audio channels AND the center MIDI strip, which functions independently of the audio channels. In the center strip alone, you have 72 MIDI commands. Channels 2/3 ALSO become MIDI channels in their MIDI mode, so the gains, EQ's, faders, and x-fader become MIDI controls as well... So all in all, you have 89 MIDI messages! Plus with the included CONTROL4LAB software, you can customize each and every MIDI knob/button and save different profiles and settings....so its actually very useful.

Ryan very informative post, thank you kindly boys.
I'm definately considering the Nuo4.

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quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 Yeah that certainly sounds like more thought out midi control to me...

Yes....it is! The NUO4 was made from the start to be a MIDI mixer...not just a mixer with "MIDI" implemented.

Whats also good is that it has a dedicated 5th "channel" for the output from your PC. You have a COMPUTER IN and a PFL in from your PC (Ableton or TRAKTOR), so you dont have to use up an audio channel. So with everything in MIDI mode, you have 2 full channels to use with CD's or turntables, and the 5th "channel" for the output from your computer...which is pretty useful.

Yes, the XONE:3D does have more channels and more MIDI functions, but it is at least 3-4 times the price!

I don't know if that's such good advice, since when you're using something like Ableton a lot of what you're doing is what you'd be doing with decks. So why not use the same piece of hardware?

quote:

Originally posted by dj_palm buy a cheaper, more minimal mixer like the nuo3 and get a simple midicontroler instead. 1st rule, all-in-one-boxes goes to hell!

Might as well post my opinion.

I acquired a Nuo4 recently, but I use it in conjunction with Traktor. The MIDI functionality is great, but I only use it to beatmatch and to cue the virtual decks.

I know I could use channel 2 and 3 faders and the xfader to control the virtual mixer, but the sound quality is a lot better through the actual mixer.

I haven't used Ableton in a while, and don't know too many specifics. I would imagine you could still use the MIDI functionality, but I've found it's much easier just using the mouse/keyboard to load tracks, adjust parameters, etc., but this may be because I was used to using mouse/keyboard (before I got a control surface).

I haven't used the DJM-800, but if you're looking for MIDI functionality in a mixer, you can't go wrong with the Nuo4. However, I would still suggest considering an external controller that has a layout suited for Ableton.

OT: Soundwerks = the North America Ecler distributor/Johnny Thrice on various other forums?

quote:

Originally posted by AnomalyConcept OT: Soundwerks = the North America Ecler distributor/Johnny Thrice on various other forums?

Yup.