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| quote: | Originally posted by zzleeper
Ok Yoepus, u re not dissinformed. As a fact, after reading the other post, it appears that you are very informed |
Thank you ;-) I know.
| quote: | | thats why i m wondering where is your self critisism |
Their is self critisims, as we have pointed many times in our post on the other thread. And the point I maks is, no we are not Saints. But if you look at the Palestinians, and then you look at the Israelis, you will say that the Israeli's are Saints. Only in comparisions you can say such things.. as we knew men to be imperfect.. however try and show me how the Palestinians are saints.. especially Arafat and his leadership, what good has he ever done for his people?
| quote: | | (like, why did Israel soldiers targeted medical personal in the recent incursions, why do Israel gov. likes to turn Palestinian houses to rubbish, etc.. u know my point). |
If you read indepthly threw the other post you will find my answers. Why do Israeli Soliders target medical personal? Why do they use their hospitals and schools as arm depots and training grounds?
| quote: | | U wont get anywhere if you keep trying to defend one side without truly analizing the situation, and realizing that as some guy said in the other post, "it takes two to dance tango". |
It takes two to dance tango applies only when making peace, unless you blantely conquer your enemy (think USA WWII), it takes two willing sides to dance. On the other hand if we look at war, it only takes one side to wage war, another to defend (again USA WWII, peral harbor.. also Israel 1948, 1973, 1967, 1982, 1956, 1993-2002).
I have analyzed the WHOLE situation, and I try and speak in context of the WHOLE picture. Not some insignificant incident or two.
| quote: | | And dont trust history so much, it usually tends to favor the winning side (that is, USA, ISRAEL, etc). |
Looks like you should not trust the thoughts going into your brain so much. It is true that history has been shifted in many occasions, but the basis of it has always remained fairly accurate. When you go back to Israeli history, and especially modern history it is embaressingly accurate as their are so many sources (from both sides) that will testify to its validity.
| quote: | | Ps: Why did Sharom, knowing that Zinni was coming, and with the Saudi peace iniciative ready to launch, ordered one of the biggest incursions in years, with thousands of soldiers, hundreds of tanks?? |
I like how you say "Thousands of soliders, hundreds of tanks", where did you get these numbers? Listenining to the voice of Palestine??
The links you included in the other thread say only a thing like 15 tanks and perhaps a hundred soldiers... I don't think it is so low, it might be, I am just sure its not hundredS and thousandS... as if that would matter anyway, isn't overwhelming force proven to show direct results quicker sparing more lives anyway? (iraq).
Why did Sharon do this? Why did Arafat knowing the same things you stated Sharon knows, not do anything to stop terrorism iminating from his controled areas?? Israel is living with a very noisey neighbor.. if it does not take actions for what it does, Israel just might go over and turn down the noise itself.
| quote: | | You, (probably) being an israely should realize that his hate against arabs(remember what he told bout arafat) makes him incapable of doing the right steps for peace. |
Rabin probably had more hate towards Arafat then Sharon does, he had a reluctancy to shake his hand durning his white house visit, and barely was able to. Rabin was capable of making peace with Arafat, I think Sharon is more then capable then making peace with Arafat.
The question still remains, is Arafat willing to make peace with Sharon?
| quote: | | Remember that there are extremists not only in the arab world, but in Israel. Remember that it wasnt an arab who killed Yitzhak Rabin, it was an extremist. |
Again, you can go check the other posts as I mentioned the whacko less then 1% each country has. However, you should be able to determine that Isreali wackos are the by product of a free society (and they all have their wackos), where as the Palestinian extremist are not only more then the 1% (since I argue that 1% has to go to the real real really wackos.. I mean look what they have to beat...) but they are the by product of incitement, and concentrated abuse and hatered by the Palestinian Regime, which focuses Israel as their scapegoat.
| quote: | | We shouldnt be arguing against jews, arabs, chinese, etc.. we should be arguing against extremists, those are the ones that cause most wars, and there can be found on BOTH sides... most times, people care only on the extremists on the opposite side. |
Shhh! Leave the Chinese out of this, but you are right I am not arguing Jew against Arab, I am arguing Israeli against Palestinian.
I am arguing about the extremist just as you have mentioned, which in this case is 90% Palestinian, 10% Isreali.. Arafat is an extremist, so I argue against him and his rule, further more he has very successfully indocterinated his populace with his believe, making most of them extreme (most those who aren't extreme have already fled his control to safer places in the world).
So their you have it.
And for your other post;
Mitchell sums it up real good their, "The Sharon visit did not cause the 'Al-Aksa Intifada'". I don't know what more you need from such a obviously, out of the way netrual observer. One can conclude using rational thought, that if it was not Sharon who started it, it must mean the Palestinians started it... hmmm.
I can write you a whole essay about the incident, but it is wise to note just one sources to validate this argument, Imad Falugi, the Palestinian Authority Communications Minister (read propoganda minister) admitted, moths after Sharon's visit that the violence had been planned in July, far in advance of Sharon's "provocation". He says "It [the uprising] had been planned since Chairman Arafat's return from Camp David, when he turned the tables on the former US president and rejected the American conditions".
As for the fact that Israelis were injured proves they were threated for their lives, and as far as I'm concerned, if anyone plans on taking my live by force, I am going to put up a fight.. and if I happen to have a gun in my hand, its me before him. Mobs are one of the most terrifying things, I would not be quick to judge how soldiers or police handle themselves in these situations.
Yoepus
"What a stupid conservative, but I repeate myself"
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Israel v. Palestinians
NO
