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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City
Is the new Baker Iraq Study Group our magic silver bullet?

I was initially gonna take a quote out of this little blog editorial, but decided the whole commentary was worth posting. It poses a question that I admittedly answered somewhat in ignorance of the larger problem in Iraq and believing that this Baker Commission group is our savior to our Iraq problems.

I feel this blogger puts it in better context at least for me:

quote:

Why speculating on what "we" can do to Fix Iraq is meaningless
by AJ in DC - 11/13/2006 10:14:00 AM


Iraq is the most important political and strategic issue of our time. It took a while for some people to realize this fact, but the elections erased any last doubts, and now the most important issue in the public consciousness is the most important issue in government. In addition to the elections, the impending final report from the Iraq Study Group (ISG), also referred to as the Baker-Hamilton Commission, is keeping Iraq policy in the forefront of news and political machinations. The ISG is a 10-person bipartisan panel, appointed by Congress in March to present an "independent assessment" of Iraq and provide analysis and recommendations. What unique insight into Iraq Sandra Day O'Connor and Vernon Jordan have, for example, I'm not sure, but in general it's a cast of political and foreign policy all-stars. Everybody seems to be waiting with bated breath for the report.

However, and it gives me no pleasure to say this, it doesn't really matter what they say. They're not going to come up with anything that hasn't already been proposed, and I doubt they'll even recommend a specific policy course. Even if they did, the idea that there's some magical pony plan to Save Iraq is pretty silly, and the idea that a panel of 10 Sensible Centrist Thinkers is going to come up with it is even sillier. With apologies to Chasing Amy, let me illustrate this with a question: In the middle of an intersection of roads lies a $100 bill. On the corners stand Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, Continuing Sectarian Violence, and Something The U.S. Can Do That Will Save Iraq. Who wins the race to the money? Continuing Sectarian Violence. Why? Because the other three are figments of your *@%#ing imagination!

I'm not saying Iraq is destined for long-term failure, but many Americans, especially, for some reason, our elected officials, seem to hold onto the idea that we can control Iraq's near-term future. Nothing within our range of options will have a significant immediate -- within, say, a year (i.e., two Friedman Units) -- impact, as Iraq's daily events are far more controlled by domestic influences than by the Coalition forces. I think people overestimate the (beneficial) effects of having the number of troops there that we do, and I think they correspondingly overestimate the impact of increasing OR decreasing those numbers by anything under 50% in either direction.

So whether the ISG says we should increase troops one more time (by, say, 20 or 30 thousand) or start to draw down forces over the course of a year or two, or even if they recommend actual changes in policy, like moving to superbases to reduce U.S. casualties or moving into cities for classical counterinsurgency, the fact is that our presence (and impact) has largely been overtaken by domestic influences. And none of these strategies will 1) definitely work or 2) even be implemented just because a blue-ribbon panel suggested them. Aside from the danger that the ISG will be used to deflect blame away from those who deserve it, which is highly possible, there is no magic solution, though I hope the ISG endorses modest but helpful things that the administration has thus far dismissed, like talking to Iran and Syria.

The phrase, "you break it, you own it" gets thrown around a lot, but you know what? We don't own Iraq. The Iraqis do. We should absolutely do as much as we can to help them move forward, but let's not kid ourselves: the reason why most political debate about Iraq involves when we should leave is because we don't have the ability to affect (or effect, for that matter) much of anything else.

http://americablog.blogspot.com/200...-can-do-to.html
\

I loved Chasing Amy - great flick. In short, Iraq is still and will likely continue to be a fucking trainwreck for years to come no matter what we do. Only the Iraqis can really help themselves out now despite all the missteps on how we got to the present situation.


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Old Post Nov-13-2006 16:18  United States
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Dj Tomer
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Calgary, Canada

This study group is nothing but a public display of Bush's willingness to consider all possibilities and alternatives or some such, pretty much just trying to phase out the stupidity of tooting "Stay the course" for the past 3 plus years.

That way when people criticize him in the future he can say he did what everyone else was suggesting would be the best course of action. Just like they like to say how "Everyone was saying Iraq had WMD's, even the democrats", so therefore it's not their fault.


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Old Post Nov-13-2006 23:20  Canada
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Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:
Re: Is the new Baker Iraq Study Group our magic silver bullet?

quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
I was initially gonna take a quote out of this little blog editorial, but decided the whole commentary was worth posting. It poses a question that I admittedly answered somewhat in ignorance of the larger problem in Iraq and believing that this Baker Commission group is our savior to our Iraq problems.

I feel this blogger puts it in better context at least for me:

\

I loved Chasing Amy - great flick. In short, Iraq is still and will likely continue to be a fucking trainwreck for years to come no matter what we do. Only the Iraqis can really help themselves out now despite all the missteps on how we got to the present situation.


So does that make you Banky or Holden....Or Earl?

Old Post Nov-14-2006 01:28  United States
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Arbiter
Naked Power Organ



Registered: May 2002
Location:

The U.S. should just leave immediately. Our continued presence serves no worthwhile purpose.

Old Post Nov-14-2006 04:18 
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Marc Summers
I must behave



Registered: Jan 2005
Location: New York, USA

quote:
Originally posted by Dj Tomer
This study group is nothing but a public display of Bush's willingness to consider all possibilities and alternatives or some such, pretty much just trying to phase out the stupidity of tooting "Stay the course" for the past 3 plus years.

That way when people criticize him in the future he can say he did what everyone else was suggesting would be the best course of action. Just like they like to say how "Everyone was saying Iraq had WMD's, even the democrats", so therefore it's not their fault.


Or maybe he realized "Staying the course" was a bad idea, and he is now open to suggestions now that he's lost confidence in his own cabinet?

Just a thought.


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Old Post Nov-14-2006 04:45 
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Dj Tomer
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Calgary, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Marc Summers
Or maybe he realized "Staying the course" was a bad idea, and he is now open to suggestions now that he's lost confidence in his own cabinet?

Just a thought.


There hasn't been dramatic changes in Iraq lately, it's been slowly going downhill for over a year, so why is he suddenly making changes? The reason is that he is now finally going to be held accountable with a Democratic house and senate, so he needs to say, "See? I made changes, I adapted" so that people can't say he never compromised. It's just another in the many steps his administration has taken in rewriting their past mistakes, change the facts and pretend it's always been that way.

It wouldn't be so hard to accept your idea of Bush realizing he's been wrong if it wasn't for the fact that they've been labeling anyone who's doubted them in the past 2 years non-patriotic, cut-and-runner, coward. The level of hypocrisy he's displaying now is astonishing.


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Old Post Nov-14-2006 06:21  Canada
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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Dj Tomer
The level of hypocrisy he's displaying now is astonishing.


Can you call it hypocrisy if he's actually willing to change and listen to, 'all options'?

There's no argument that Saddam had to go, the reasonings however, is the buzzard bait for bloggers.

It definitely is a change though and doesn't change the fact that they're still there.

I for one, am glad they're actually starting to look into this; it is what was promised to the Iraqi people before their elections.
(I'd post the television ad that was being aired in Iraq just before their elections showing the Americans leaving, but I can't find it atm).


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The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Old Post Nov-14-2006 14:12  Canada
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Lilith
Meowsies!



Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Maximum Security twilight home for cats

quote:
Originally posted by Arbiter
The U.S. should just leave immediately. Our continued presence serves no worthwhile purpose.


Bit of a damned if you do, damned if you dont situation.
Logistically the best course of action would have been too saturate Afganistan first which was a justifiable enough cause too go there, kill off all the taliban and al-quaeda, then maybe have a look at Iraq when that was tidied up.
There just isnt enough troops in Iraq too properly police the place and in removing Saddam just left a power vacuum which dozens of other tin-pot warlords where only too happy too seize the oppertunity too carve out their own little niches. I guess when you commit too a war with no UN backing, technically illegal and no source of reserves too fill it out you just make do with what you have, which doesnt seem to be enough.

Just feel sorry for all the people that are getting killed by their own countrymen for ultimately some petty reasons, I'm fairly sure most of the soldiers over there are quite sick of the place and away from their families for so long. Leaving now though I can see the civilian death toll going through the roof as all the nutcases go on a rampage even more than theyre doing now.

Old Post Nov-14-2006 15:29 
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Arbiter
Naked Power Organ



Registered: May 2002
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Lilith
Leaving now though I can see the civilian death toll going through the roof as all the nutcases go on a rampage even more than theyre doing now.


No doubt, but that is likely true whether we leave immediately, in one year, or in five years. The sooner we get it over with the sooner Iraq can start rebuilding... in whatever form the inevitable "rampage" leaves it.

Old Post Nov-14-2006 20:10 
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Marc Summers
I must behave



Registered: Jan 2005
Location: New York, USA

quote:
Originally posted by Dj Tomer
There hasn't been dramatic changes in Iraq lately, it's been slowly going downhill for over a year, so why is he suddenly making changes? The reason is that he is now finally going to be held accountable with a Democratic house and senate, so he needs to say, "See? I made changes, I adapted" so that people can't say he never compromised. It's just another in the many steps his administration has taken in rewriting their past mistakes, change the facts and pretend it's always been that way.

It wouldn't be so hard to accept your idea of Bush realizing he's been wrong if it wasn't for the fact that they've been labeling anyone who's doubted them in the past 2 years non-patriotic, cut-and-runner, coward. The level of hypocrisy he's displaying now is astonishing.


That's the same thing you posted before. It is not practical.


___________________
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Old Post Nov-14-2006 21:23 
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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Is the new Baker Iraq Study Group our magic silver bullet?
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