My first thought is "what is the point of life?" but really I suppose that infers it has a point, which to be honest I don't think it does have.

Kind of asks what is Life also. In mainstream thought it is animals, but really is that Life? Is their really such a thing as Life?

Going back to meaning in reference to The Meaning of Life, I'd suggest that in a way the way one interprets the word 'meaning' in that sentence actually infers their views on life.

1. I would say really their isn't one. Whatever meaning someone uses to justify their life is merely a way of allowing them to pursue hardwired instinct in a way they can handle even though they know they will die, which goes against the survival instinct.
   
   
2. A religious person might think of god "to follow gods plan". But I suppose really (kinda a tangent) even religious people are seeking happiness (in 'the after life').
   
   
3. Many just might not care and live in the now, meaning to them would infer their current aims in their and their families life's.
   

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I would interpret "meaning" as a 'cause and effect' relation that has led us up to this point, and which will lead us into the future. To find the meaning of life according to me, is to objectively identify the causes for our existence. Will our future actions (effects) be determined simply by today's actions (causes) or, our small actions are a result of a primary cause which brought us into existence in the first place ? I would say, to search for the meaning of life, is to seek answers to these questions.

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Originally posted by twilightki : It feels like something you'd listen to at 4 in the morning, or listen to in your car while you're going in a tunnel.

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Originally posted by Dervish My first thought is "what is the point of life?" but really I suppose that infers it has a point, which to be honest I don't think it does have.

That's fine, but why do you think of the question in that fashion? Why interpret the question in the sense of 'what is the point of life'. Is it because you looked up meaning in the dictionary, and it was defined as 'point', and that made sense to you, or was it from extrapolating that interpretation from some other context where meaning if defined in that sense? If so, what was that context?

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Originally posted by Omega_M I would interpret "meaning" as a 'cause and effect' relation that has led us up to this point, and which will lead us into the future. To find the meaning of life according to me, is to objectively identify the causes for our existence. Will our future actions (effects) be determined simply by today's actions (causes) or, our small actions are a result of a primary cause which brought us into existence in the first place ? I would say, to search for the meaning of life, is to seek answers to these questions.

Can you use the word meaning, as you interpret it in this context, within some other context, or is this interpretation restricted to this particular question?

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Originally posted by Epicurus Can you use the word meaning, as you interpret it in this context, within some other context, or is this interpretation restricted to this particular question?

This interpretation is restricted to this particular question. And by meaning, I imply purpose. Like, what is the purpose of life ? Why are we here ? what is driving us ? I think, to find the meaning to life, is ultimately to seek answers about our life's purpose and our life's cause. I believe if we know these answers, we have understood the "meaning" of life in a truly universal context. All other interpretations of the "meaning of life" will be limited in context or will be relative to a particular set of ideas (like religion, nature, emotions and psychology etc).

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Originally posted by twilightki : It feels like something you'd listen to at 4 in the morning, or listen to in your car while you're going in a tunnel.

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Originally posted by Epicurus That's fine, but why do you think of the question in that fashion? Why interpret the question in the sense of 'what is the point of life'. Is it because you looked up meaning in the dictionary, and it was defined as 'point', and that made sense to you, or was it from extrapolating that interpretation from some other context where meaning if defined in that sense? If so, what was that context?

Nah just to me, the meaning of something is the reason for it. I suppose it isn't exactly the why. Because I couldn't say "the meaning an apple falls is gravity" it seems to point to a justification or maybe more a motivation for something to be that way rather than an explanation for why it is that way.

But as I say I don't think life does have a meaning. What are your thoughts on it?

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It's this kind of thinking that changed my wife's mind about having a baby...

no...seriously...

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"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

The meaning of life is to have at least two babies - one to replace you and one to replace the bird you have it with!

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Originally posted by Dervish Nah just to me, the meaning of something is the reason for it. I suppose it isn't exactly the why. Because I couldn't say "the meaning an apple falls is gravity" it seems to point to a justification or maybe more a motivation for something to be that way rather than an explanation for why it is that way. But as I say I don't think life does have a meaning. What are your thoughts on it?

My thoughts on it are muddled. When I think about the word meaning, and how to define it, I think of it in different ways, such as:

1-) What is the meaning of that word? as in: 'what is the meaning of the word 'chair'? Here, we are interested in the definition of a word. Applied to our question about the meaning of life, we would be asking about the definition of the word 'life'. I highly doubt that's what most people think of when they ask that question.

2-) What is the meaning of that dark glance?, as in: you're in the middle of a room talking with a bunch of friends, and suddenly one of them gives you a dark glance across the room, and you wonder 'what is the meaning of that dark glance'. Here, we are interested in that which is intended by the dark glance. Of crucial importance in this interpretation is the necessity of a sentient being capable of acting in an intentional way and an act that reflects intention. Applied to our question, if 'dark glance' is replaced by 'life', then the latter must be interpreted as an act perpetrated by some sentient being capable of acting in an intentional way. I know no way of making sense of this interpretation other than positing God as that sentient being and life as His act of creation, with an intention in mind when he created it (whatever that may be).

3-) What is the meaning of big black clouds? Here, we are attempting to decipher the consequences of an event. An answer could be along the lines of 'it means it's going to rain'. Crucial to this case is the interpretation of big black clouds as a phenomenon. We are thus interested in the condequences of a particular phenomenon. Applied to our case, we could answer along the lines of: the meaning of life is that we're going to die.

4-) What is the meaning of Sisyphus rolling that rock up the hill only for it to fall back down right before he reaches the top, over and over again till the end of time? Here, we are questioning the point of this exercise, for it seems futile to us that someone would do such a thing forever till the end of time. The underlying framework that makes sense of this interpretation is our everday common-sensical approach of only doing things for a reason. There has to be a point to our actions, otherwise, we don't do them. Thus, when we see someone engaging in a futile exercise such as Sisyphus, we wonder what the hell he is doing. Applied to the meaning of life, life must be interpreted not as a phenomenon (such as black clouds are a phenomenon) but as a series of activities that one engages in. Then, when one asks 'what is the meaning of life', one is asking what the point is in engaging in a series of activities that eventually leads to nothing but death.

5-) What is the meaning of that relationship to you? Here, we are interested in gauging the importance or significance of something to someone. We want to know whether the relationship to that person is valuable or not. Applied to our case, we are asking about the value of life, as in 'what is the value of life?'. Here again, the question is incomplete, for we don't know to whom this judgement of value refers to.

I could go on, but you get the drift. Lots of possible interpretations, but each with hidden assumptions and so forth that make the question rather ambiguous.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r It's this kind of thinking that changed my wife's mind about having a baby... no...seriously...

Why, what happened?

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Originally posted by George Smiley The meaning of life is to have at least two babies - one to replace you and one to replace the bird you have it with!

What a silly Brit

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Originally posted by Epicurus Why, what happened?

My wife is a very driven when it comes to her goals but the cycle of goal / achievement / goal / achievement / etc. started to become unsatisfactory with a sense of been-there-done-that.

The ultimate questions came up, "Is this it? Is this all there is?"

Suffice to say that we've never been happier.

...and this is after many years of deciding not to have kids.

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Last edited by Fir3start3r on Jul-05-2007 at 23:16

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Originally posted by Epicurus 1-)... Applied to our question about the meaning of life, we would be asking about the definition of the word 'life'. I highly doubt that's what most people think of when they ask that question.

I started asking that question lol. I mean can one possess life or is one life? Are we part of life or are we individually life? Does life exist (this one I think can be answered no, but thats another point).

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2-) ... Of crucial importance in this interpretation is the necessity of a sentient being capable of acting in an intentional way and an act that reflects intention. Applied to our question, if 'dark glance' is replaced by 'life', then the latter must be interpreted as an act perpetrated by some sentient being capable of acting in an intentional way. I know no way of making sense of this interpretation other than positing God as that sentient being and life as His act of creation, with an intention in mind when he created it (whatever that may be).

An excellent point, it's one I was sort of stumbling around before. It does infer a design, which I don't think is possible (but again a tangent to the main point).

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3-) What is the meaning of big black clouds? Here, we are attempting to decipher the consequences of an event. An answer could be along the lines of 'it means it's going to rain'. Crucial to this case is the interpretation of big black clouds as a phenomenon. We are thus interested in the condequences of a particular phenomenon. Applied to our case, we could answer along the lines of: the meaning of life is that we're going to die.

Well couldn't it be that for example the study of physics could be considered like this? Understanding the mechanism (phenomenon) of what we call life?

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4-) Then, when one asks 'what is the meaning of life', one is asking what the point is in engaging in a series of activities that eventually leads to nothing but death.

I could see how some people could think like that "why are we here" basically I suppose. Inferring a reason for life. But to me it's kind of illogical (sorry know the topic isn't life just the meaning but keep having thoughts lol). Things don't always happen for a reason they usually happen because of something though.

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5-) What is the meaning of that relationship to you? Here, we are interested in gauging the importance or significance of something to someone. We want to know whether the relationship to that person is valuable or not. Applied to our case, we are asking about the value of life, as in 'what is the value of life?'. Here again, the question is incomplete, for we don't know to whom this judgement of value refers to.

Kind of a hard one, because as you say it comes down to the subjective judgment of the individual.

Sorry for going off topic a few times, but I'll have another thing about this tomorrow.

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If you can read this, I'm seriously fucking bored.