I've read a Russian language article on this the other day. LOL, yeah, look at that - Americans need missile defense bases in every post-Soviet state to defend against Iran, LOL. Its not just Poland and Czech Republic anymore, its Georgia, Ukraine, Baltic states ... oh my, yeah, I dont buy the bullshit that Americans are doing this to defend against Iranian aggression. Did Americans invade Iraq because of 9/11 connection or valid documentation of WMD's proof? No. They're liars, and they lie about their intentions right now as well.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

you two are worse than sheep, you know that right?

the sheep was president Kennedy and whole American nation, during the time when Russians planned to install nuclear missles on Cuba.

do you like that?

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Originally posted by Q5echo you two are worse than sheep, you know that right?

Even if they are sheep, what reason would the US have to install those ABM's? I thought the new rules said 'no ad hominem', yet every other of your posts completely bypass what is being debated and just go straight for the person. Hey, here's a tip, if you don't an argument to contribute don't go through all the effort of hitting the post button.

On this expansion thing, i thought with NATO withdrawing and loosing power the US would curbed its expansion in Europe too. It's a shame, this will only get them into trouble and win them enemies.

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Poetry>Byron//Blog>TheMean

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Orbax At that point you kind of crossed the rubicon and you might as well lay siege to Rome

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U.S. missile defence in Europe angers Russia Last Updated: Monday, March 5, 2007 | 12:54 PM ET The Associated Press Germany's foreign minister called Monday for a calm debate by the European Union, the NATO alliance and Russia on U.S. plans to develop an anti-missile shield in Europe. A top Russian general, however, increased the bellicosity of the debate, noting that the Russian air force could easily knock out any such missile-defence sites the U.S. places in Europe. "Since missile-defence elements are weakly protected, all types of our aircraft are capable of applying electronic countermeasures against them or physically destroying them," Lt.-Gen. Igor Khvorov said Monday, according to Russian news agencies Interfax and RIA-Novosti. German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier, whose country holds the EU presidency, made his call for calm amid growing concerns in Moscow and in the EU over Washington's talks with the Czech Republic, Poland and Britain about those countries hosting radar bases and interceptor missiles as part of the plan. "What we have to do now is to discuss this calmly within NATO and the EU and … to talk to the Russians," Steinmeier told reporters as he went into a meeting of EU foreign ministers. Luxembourg Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn said the U.S. plan was "incomprehensible," adding that money spent on a European missile-defence system could be better spent elsewhere. "We will have no stability in Europe if we push the Russians into a corner," he said. The comments came ahead of Czech Prime Minister Mirek Topolanek's visit to NATO headquarters, where he was to discuss the controversial plan later Monday. Several EU nations, including France, have voiced concern that such a system could hurt European ties with Moscow. The Russians have strongly criticized the plan to place a radar system in the Czech Republic and a missile-interceptor site in Poland. Iran the threat, not Russia: U.S. Washington has offered assurances that the installations would be meant to deal with a potential threat from Iran, not Russia. However, Russian President Vladimir Putin has said that he does not trust the American claims and warned that Russia would take countermeasures. German Defence Minister Franz Josef Jung suggested Friday that the U.S. plan could be integrated into the defences of NATO. Britain is also in talks with the U.S. about the deployment. On a visit to NATO headquarters Thursday, the director of the U.S. Missile Defence Agency, Lt.-Gen. Henry Obering, said Washington also wants to put an anti-missile radar site in the Caucasus, a move likely to intensify Russian concerns. In another reflection of the increasing tensions, Russia's presidential Security Council said it was developing a new national military doctrine that would take into account the growing role of military force in global politics. While it did not mention the United States, the statement referred to the strengthening of NATO as one of the global policy factors that explain the need for Russia to revise its military doctrine. Last month, Putin accused the U.S. of the unrestrained use of force worldwide. Canada remains out of N. American missile defence In February 2005, Prime Minister Paul Martin announced that Canada would not participate in a North American missile-shield program with the U.S. Although critical of the decision at the time, in July 2006, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said his Tory government wasn't prepared to open the debate on whether Canada should reverse the Liberal decision and join the U.S. ballistic missile-defence program. However, Harper said he understood the need to have a "modern and flexible defence system" to combat missile threats.

U.S. missile defence in Europe angers Russia


Who needs a goddamn stability? The US is pushing Russia and China for another arms race. How can't G.Bush realize that? Or is it a part of his foreign policy course?

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Originally posted by star-traveller U.S. missile defence in Europe angers Russia Who needs a goddamn stability? The US is pushing Russia and China for another arms race. How can't G.Bush realize that? Or is it a part of his foreign policy course?

Yeah, there's little consequences when they push little players around like Iran or Iraq or North Korea. But they should be ready to tread very carefully with Russia and China to avoid reviving old animosity's.

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Poetry>Byron//Blog>TheMean

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Orbax At that point you kind of crossed the rubicon and you might as well lay siege to Rome

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Originally posted by venomX Yeah, there's little consequences when they push little players around like Iran or Iraq or North Korea. But they should be ready to tread very carefully with Russia and China to avoid reviving old animosity's.

After 9/11 attacks, Iran was on American side, offering assistance, handing over terrorists, asking for mutual American-Iranian co-operation in the region. However, USA just placed Iran into the rogue states list and told them to funk off. So then Ahmadinejad came to power, and he decided to shift the policy accordingly. So who do we have to blame for all this?

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

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Russia Has No Explicit Answers from the U.S., Lavrov Said Russia has received “no clear answers” from the United States to the better part of questions related to strategic safety, RF Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov told the reporters. The Foreign Ministry of Russia “is in talks with the U.S. colleagues,” prompting them to clarify the situation. “The meetings and briefings are being held, but we get no clear answers to most questions,” Lavrov specified. The case in hand is the U.S. plans to station elements of the missile defense system in some countries of Eastern Europe. The response of Russia’s policymakers is predictably critical. At the same time, Lavrov acknowledged “the U.S. flexibility and readiness to compromise in respect of the nuclear problems of Korea peninsula and to resume a new round of negotiations.” Moscow thinks “this approach will be maintained and mutual solutions will be found for remaining issues,” Lavrov said. When commenting on results of negotiations with South Korean Foreign Minister Song Min-soon, Lavrov specified the need to bring momentum to Korea dialogue. Lavrov said they agreed to be as efficient as possible and hold meetings of working groups on nuclear problems of Korea and “to develop additional contacts within the dialogue for cooperating in Asia and for security in the ASEAN partners.”

Russia Has No Explicit Answers from the U.S., Lavrov Said

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Pentagon Heads for Kiev // US Primes Europe for Missile Defense System Yesterday an American delegation headed by US Ballistic Missile Defense Agency director Lieutenant General Henry Obering arrived in Kiev, where the Pentagon's representatives and the Ukrainian authorities were due to discuss plans to expand America's ballistic missile defense system into Poland and the Czech Republic. In the face of the increasing number of opponents that the idea is facing, including much of Western Europe, Washington has clearly decided to attempt to placate the naysayers by sending General Obering in to do some explaining. The Pentagon delegation's visit to Ukraine was organized on the initiative of the American side. In Kiev, the meetings lasted from early in the morning until late in the evening and included talks with Defense Minister Vitaly Gaiduk, presidential advisor Vladimir Gorbulin, deputies from the Upper Rada (the Ukrainian parliament), and representatives from the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry. On the request of the Americans, the meetings were held behind closed doors, with General Obering appearing in public only at a final press conference to discuss what brought him to Kiev and the talks that he had with Ukrainian military and government officials. According to General Obering, the American anti-missile facilities that may soon be installed in Poland and the Czech Republic are necessary only to neutralize the threats posed by Iran and North Korea. He insisted that these facilities are not a threat to Russia and that the US has no plans to establish a similar system in Ukraine or the countries of the Caucasus. "We are talking about no more than ten interceptors,'' Obering assured journalists, adding, ''They would have no effect against the hundreds of missiles and thousands of warheads that the Russians have. …They are not even in the proper position if we were concerned about Russian missiles.'' General Obering's placatory speech was briefly interrupted by four activists from the Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine (PSPU), who chanted "Yankee, go home" and waved banners featuring anti-NATO and anti-American slogans before being subdued by security guards and ejected from the room. Several journalists were briefly involved in the scuffle, as was Ukrainian Foreign Ministry spokesman Andrei Deshchetsa, who managed to rip a banner from the hands of one of the protestors. In response to the incident, General Obering observed, "I am very glad to see that democracy is alive and well" in Ukraine. Meanwhile, a demonstration was taking place on the street outside the building, where about 50 PSPU activists chanted "We're not Yankees, we're Slavs, and our brothers are the Russians" and carried signs reading "No to American missile defenses in Europe," "No to pro-NATO plans in Ukraine," and "Ukraine against NATO." The antics of the PSPU activists were unlikely to puncture the mood for Washington's emissaries, who were being handled with utmost care by Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko. Eager to make General Obering feel welcome in Kiev, President Yushchenko argued in an interview with Euronews the day before the American delegation arrived that the idea of Poland and the Czech Republic hosting elements of the US missile defense shield in is in Europe's best interest. "We are talking about the installation of components that are defensive in nature and that will serve the interests not only of Poland and the Czech Republic but of Europe as a whole," he said, adding that "the development of a collective model is always better than the development of a bipolar system of confrontation." Mr. Yushchenko's sanguine outlook is not shared by Ukrainian Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych, who has long criticized Washington's plans to expand the shield in Europe, but the prime minister's opposition gave the president no pause. President Yushchenko dismissed Mr. Yanukovych's fears, calling his position an incorrect signal. "My main point is this: Europeans should rest assured that not a single democratic victory of the Orange Revolution will be ceded or ruined," promised the president. Incidentally, there were some signs of rapport between Yushchenko and Yanukovych yesterday that could facilitate the hammering out of a unified position for Kiev on the issue of the missile defense system: during a meeting yesterday evening, the two Ukrainian leaders finally agreed on a candidate for foreign minister, a question on which Viktor Yanukovych has been stonewalling all progress for the past several months. This is a positive signal for the West, which has been quietly confused about whom to carry on talks with, given that Ukraine's two leaders hold diametrically-opposed opinions on foreign policy. "The visit by the Americans is an overture. Their plan is to at least test the waters, to find out how the Ukrainian elite feels about the missile defense system and to try to make sure that it does not come out against [the system]. They need the Ukrainians to not destroy Eastern European solidarity on this question," said Vadim Karasev, the director of the Kiev Institute of Global Strategy. "Right now the Ukrainian military is not unanimously opposed to the missile shield, and that is significant," he noted. Henry Obering has every reason to believe that his visit to Kiev yesterday was successful. Today General Obering heads for Germany, whose leadership has been increasingly critical of the American plan to put its missile shield in Eastern Europe without consulting all interested parties. Recently German Chancellor Angela Merkel maintained that Washington should take Russia's opinion on the matter into account and mentioned that she plans to bring up the subject during her visit to Warsaw on March 16-17: "I think that we will discuss it there. …We, and I will say this in Poland, prefer a solution within NATO and also an open discussion with Russia about it." During his visit to Germany, General Obering plans to hold discussions with German military officials and politicians similar to his talks with the Ukrainian authorities, and he is sure to push Ukraine's cautiously positive outlook on the shield in hopes of convincing his German colleagues that Washington's plans involving Poland and the Czech Republic will not rupture relations with Russia.

Pentagon Heads for Kiev

The current US administration is doing everything to destabilize the situation in Europe.

The debate over ABM bases in Europe is so pointless and stupid. It seems the Russians get it:

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"A top Russian general, however, increased the bellicosity of the debate, noting that the Russian air force could easily knock out any such missile-defence sites the U.S. places in Europe. "Since missile-defence elements are weakly protected, all types of our aircraft are capable of applying electronic countermeasures against them or physically destroying them," Lt.-Gen. Igor Khvorov said Monday, according to Russian news agencies Interfax and RIA-Novosti.

I wonder how much of this outrage over US plans is being invented by the anti-US propaganda machine. The Russians know these ABM systems are at most able to take out a few missiles, not a threat to a massive launch of thousands of ICBMs by Russia. The Russians know these bases are being placed to counter threats by Iran and North Korea and are not in position to destroy ICBMs launched from Russia. The Russians know that in time of war if they wanted to they could easily destroy the ABM bases making the whole issue moot.

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Originally posted by XaNaX The debate over ABM bases in Europe is so pointless and stupid. It seems the Russians get it:

I'd like to see your face when you know that your country is a target for a number of ICBMs with nuclear warheads. Exactly that thing will happen with ass-licker Poland and Czech.

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Originally posted by XaNaX I wonder how much of this outrage over US plans is being invented by the anti-US propaganda machine. The Russians know these ABM systems are at most able to take out a few missiles, not a threat to a massive launch of thousands of ICBMs by Russia. The Russians know these bases are being placed to counter threats by Iran and North Korea and are not in position to destroy ICBMs launched from Russia. The Russians know that in time of war if they wanted to they could easily destroy the ABM bases making the whole issue moot.

Oh yeah man, American propaganda is in place. Try to compare what you said with what Bush tried to push before the war in Iraq.

Or you want to say me that the US doesn't know such word as Propaganda?