you got to ask yourself Opus, how much more "satanic" can we [the US] get in the eyes of Islamic fundies currently or formally?

if the answer is not much more than we already are then it's gotta be all down hill from here.

or not, then you just keep fightin. pretty hard concept for you to grasp i'm sure.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo you got to ask yourself Opus, how much more "satanic" can we [the US] get in the eyes of Islamic fundies currently or formally? if the answer is not much more than we already are then it's gotta be all down hill from here. or not, then you just keep fightin. pretty hard concept for you to grasp i'm sure.

+1

Siding with a group of people, especially radical muslims or christians just because you have a hang up with the country or society that has given you every opp in the world is stupid. What the fock has Iran given you?? Even if you are Iranian....WHAT THE FOCK HAVE THEY or any Muslim Extremist given anyone but death??
And the supporters on this board make me sick!! Do you really thing that you would be free under the same people that you support?? Is your hate for America or the West so great that you want to live under a government like Iran?? If you can answer that YES then I will call you a ball faced liar, cause you should not even be here, you should be beating your wife or stoning some woman cause her ankle showed.

Lets see: The US gave me life, college, money, a safe place to raise kids, education and endless oppurtunitues to better myself.
Now what has the Muslim Extremist given me??
Chills while watching them cut off the head of an innocent while screaming that thier FAKE, FOCKED UP GOD is great.
Screw them, screw the Chirstians and Especially Screw the Muslim focks that want to take the world back to the 7th Century.
/rant

True enough, Laz & Q5, though I still find it hard to have not learnt from lessons past with Osama and other proxy armies. The south American ones were easy enough to discard since they didn't have the same passion and money to start fighting against US interests.

These guys do.

It was easy to arrest Noriega once his usefulness was done, but it's been a lot harder to get Osama, no?

quote:

Originally posted by pmoisse It was easy to arrest Noriega once his usefulness was done, but it's been a lot harder to get Osama, no?

Osama is a free man like me and you living his life right now without anyone going after him.
Letting him being free works much better for this admin anyways,at least this way they ll always have an excuse to continue their "war on terror".

___________________
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quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer Osama is a free man like me and you living his life right now without anyone going after him. Letting him being free works much better for this admin anyways,at least this way they ll always have an excuse to continue their "war on terror".

I agree just a little with you softcore, (unbelievable I know) the admin used the boogy man called Osama to gain a foothold on the US people. But we are not stupid any longer..... I do doubt tho that Osama is living in the lap of luxery though, its kind of hard to install a hot tub in a cave

I said it one hundred times before and I will say it one hundred times more - the reason the Iranian leadership developed to be so anti-American was a direct backlash from the illegal covert operation Ajax in 1953 that US/UK used to overthrow a democratically elected leader (who was pro-western, Mossadeq) and anti-communist leader, and instead installed a dictator puppet who terrorized Iran for over 20 years up until the 1979 Revolution. Eventually Iranian people managed to dethrone the dictatorship ... but instead they had to settle for an Islamic republic. When you observe the Islamic countries like Morocco, Tunis, even Lybia, you will notice that Americans did little or no political intervention, and eventually these places got things sorted out and now are US friends.

Americans are trying to flame up the conflict in the Middle East for which they will have to suffer backlashes later on. They will most certainly lose the war in Iraq, and Iran is turning more anti-American with every little American provocation directed against Iran. And then you guys expect Iran not to be critical of Israel, USA, UK? And then you expect Iran not to try to develop nuclear weapons to protect itself? You guys really think Iran wants nuclear power so that it can be used an excuse to be attacked, bombed and government overthrown? You guys really think that they are that suicidal?

If Americans allowed Mossadeq to nationalize the oil/gas fields which he had every right to do, then today Iran would be sort of like Lybia or Morocco. And there would have been no need for USA to support, arm and fund the rise and existence of Saddam Hussein to terrorize Middle East. Then USA would have eventually got things sorted out politically and the oil and gas fields would have eventually went America's way.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

war on terra-cotta?

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo you got to ask yourself Opus, how much more "satanic" can we [the US] get in the eyes of Islamic fundies currently or formally? if the answer is not much more than we already are then it's gotta be all down hill from here. or not, then you just keep fightin. pretty hard concept for you to grasp i'm sure.

Straw man.

It's irrelevant how we look upon our enemy in the context of the argument I am stating. We are not fighting this War on Terra for a better "image" to our enemies. That's just nonsensical. The problem being created by funding such groups and individuals has been historically problematic and has come back to haunt us over and over.

The "enemy of our enemy is our ally" line has the intrinsic problem of failing to fully examine that so-called "ally" in full view to see if trusting such an enemy is worth trusting to carry our intelligence, our guns, our money, our manpower, our overall support. It has proven to be a short-term fix to a much larger long-term problem. So call me skeptical on how "successful" this short-term fix may be, but I think our dear friend bin Laden could clearly tell you his version of "success" with being a former ally of ours.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 The "enemy of our enemy is our ally" line has the intrinsic problem of failing to fully examine that so-called "ally" in full view to see if trusting such an enemy is worth trusting to carry our intelligence, our guns, our money, our manpower, our overall support.

That's not the line.


"The enemy of my enemy is not my friend."
"Keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer."


Frankly, I don't know all of the details around this as it's a relatively new story and we know little, if anything about context. Is it not possible that someone "has something" on these guys or that they are merely pawns/assets in a larger game? I dunno, just throwing it out there. There is usually much more to these stories than the public and the media are privy to (i.e. the why part of the question). However, given your love for the current administration, I cannot blame you for your healthy dose of skepticism!

Maybe I watch too much 24. Though the snuke in the snizz on Southpark was hilarious.

Last edited by Shakka on Apr-04-2007 at 19:04

The Yugoslav Caldron
Jürgen Elsässer: “The CIA recruited and trained the jihadists”
by Silvia Cattori*
14 August 2006


In his latest book, “How the Jihad Came to Europe”, German journalist Jürgen Elsässer unravels the Jihadist thread. Muslim fighters recruited by the CIA to fight against the Soviets in Afghanistan were used successively in Yugoslavia and Chechnya, still supported by the CIA, but perhaps sometimes out of its control. Basing himself on diverse sources, mainly Yugoslavian, Dutch, and German, he reconstructed the development of Osama bin Laden and his lieutenants at the side of NATO in Bosnia-Herzegovinia.

The Source