I swear I posted this letter not to long ago but couldn't find it in search:

quote:

Firefighters Union Letter On Rudy Giuliani March 8, 2007 On March 14, 2007, the IAFF will host the first bi-partisan Presidential Forum of the 2008 election cycle. No other union and very few organizations has the credibility and respect to attract top-tier candidates from both political parties. The lineup of speakers who have agreed to participate in our Forum is truly a testament to our great union and the reputation we have built as a powerful political force and a coveted endorsement. John Edwards, John McCain, Barack Obama, Chuck Hagel, Hillary Clinton, Chris Dodd, Joe Biden, Duncan Hunter and seven other candidates will make their case before the 1,000 delegates who will be attending the Forum and to our entire membership via same-day broadcast on our web site. Early on, the IAFF made a decision to invite all serious candidates from both political parties — except one: former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani. We made this decision after considerable soul-searching and close consultation with our two New York City affiliates, the Uniformed Firefighters Association Local 94 and the Uniformed Fire Officers Association Local 854, as well as our former Local 94 President and current IAFF 1st District Vice President covering New York. The IAFF recognizes that Mayor Giuliani generally enjoys a favorable reputation as a result of his actions immediately after the tragedy of 9/11. As such, we want our affiliates and every one of our members to clearly understand the reason and rationale behind this very serious and sober decision. Many people consider Rudy Giuliani "America's Mayor," and many of our members who don't yet know the real story, may also have a positive view of him. This letter is intended to make all of our members aware of the egregious acts Mayor Giuliani committed against our members, our fallen on 9/11, and our New York City union officers following that horrific day. Rest assured, our exclusion of Mayor Giuliani is not about any particular contractual or policy issue or disagreement, nor is it based on his unfriendly relationship with our New York City affiliates prior to 9/11 — which we will document and explain in additional correspondence later on during the campaign. In fact, we invited several candidates with whom we have had substantial disagreement on policy issues because we feel very strongly that our members have the right to hear from all candidates, not just those who tow the IAFF line. Regrettably, the situation with former Mayor Giuliani is very different. His actions post 9/11 rise to such an offensive and personal attack on our brother and sisterhood — and directly on our union — that the IAFF does not feel Rudy Giuliani deserves an audience of IAFF leaders and members at our own Presidential Forum. The disrespect that he exhibited to our 343 fallen FDNY brothers, their families and our New York City IAFF leadership in the wake of that tragic day has not been forgiven or forgotten. In November 2001, our members were continuing the painful, but necessary, task of searching Ground Zero for the remains of our fallen brothers and the thousands of innocent citizens that were killed, because precious few of those who died in the terrorist attacks had been recovered at that point. Prior to November 2001, 101 bodies or remains of fire fighters had been recovered. And those on the horrible pile at Ground Zero believed they had just found a spot in the rubble where they would find countless more that could be given proper burial. Nevertheless, Giuliani, with the full support of his Fire Commissioner Thomas Von Essen, decided on November 2, 2001, to sharply reduce the number of those who could search for remains at any one time. There had been as many as 300 fire fighters at a time involved in search and recovery, but Giuliani cut that number to no more than 25 who could be there at once. In conjunction with the cut in fire fighters allowed to search, Giuliani also made a conscious decision to institute a "scoop-and-dump" operation to expedite the clean-up of Ground Zero in lieu of the more time-consuming, but respectful, process of removing debris piece by piece in hope of uncovering more remains. Mayor Giuliani's actions meant that fire fighters and citizens who perished would either remain buried at Ground Zero forever, with no closure for families, or be removed like garbage and deposited at the Fresh Kills Landfill. Our Local presidents at the time attempted to meet with the Mayor to stop this despicable treatment of those who perished, but he refused to even see them face-to-face. The scoop-and-dump continued. And when hundreds of family members of the fallen joined with our affiliate leadership and members to protest Giuliani's decision, he ordered senior officers of the New York Police Department to arrest 15 of our FDNY brothers, including a number of local elected IAFF leaders. Giuliani modified his policy after the protest because public opinion was so strongly with our members. Ultimately, he was forced to put the fire fighters back on the pile. Our protests were later proven justified as more bodies were ultimately recovered and those families given a chance for some closure and a decent burial. Giuliani argued that the change was for our own safety, but his argument was empty and without substance. Fire fighters had been on that pile since minutes after the twin towers fell — why all of a sudden, after nearly two months working on the pile, was Giuliani concerned about fire fighter safety? In our view, he wasn't really concerned. The fact is that the Mayor's switch to a scoop-and-dump coincided with the final removal of tens of millions of dollars of gold, silver and other assets of the Bank of Nova Scotia that were buried beneath what was once the towers. Once the money was out, Giuliani sided with the developers that opposed a lengthy recovery effort, and ordered the scoop-and-dump operation so they could proceed with redevelopment. In the first few days immediately after the disaster, Giuliani had said he was committed to the recovery of those lost "right down to the last brick." We believed him at the time. But, what he proved with his actions is that he really meant the "last gold brick." Giuliani crucified fire fighters after our protest and publicly stated that our members were essentially acting like babies, that they didn't have the market cornered on grief. His insensitive statements demonstrated his inability to grasp what members of the FDNY were experiencing. What Giuliani showed is a disgraceful lack of respect for the fallen and those brothers still searching for them. He exposed our members and leaders to arrest. He valued the money and gold and wanted the site cleared before he left office at the end of 2001 more than he valued the lives and memories of those lost. Our members deserved the right to continue with a full search for their lost brothers and other innocent victims. Proudly, as you know, the fire service has a code similar to the military, where we leave no one behind. Recovering even a piece of a turnout coat or helmet gave our FDNY brothers and sisters and the families of the fallen some small semblance of peace, something to honor. But hundreds remained entombed in Ground Zero when Giuliani gave up on them. The fundamental lack of respect that Giuliani showed our FDNY members is unforgivable - and that's why he was not invited. Our disdain for him is not about issues or a disputed contract, it is about a visceral, personal affront to the fallen, to our union and, indeed, to every one of us who has ever risked our lives by going into a burning building to save lives and property. We have heard from some affiliates that Giuliani's campaign is beginning to reach out to our locals, looking to build support. If you are contacted by Giuliani, Von Essen, or a representative of the Giuliani campaign, we hope you will say not just, "No," but, "Hell no." And please let the IAFF Political Affairs Department know about it by calling (202) 824-1582. Please share this correspondence with your membership. Thank you. Fraternally and Sincerely, Harold A. Schaitberger, General President Vincent J. Bollon, General Secretary-Treasurer and Past President, UFOA of NYC, Local 854 Kevin Gallagher, IAFF 1st District Vice President and Past President, UFA of NYC, Local 94 Stephen Cassidy, President, UFA of NYC, Local 94 Peter Gorman, President, UFOA of NYC, Local 854 Written by IAFF

And so it has already been started in another thread.

The repeater

eek, looks like he pissed off the fire fighters good.


Though, I do sort of have to agree with Giuliani here, they seem to act a little like babies in this incidences...

for instance; complaining that the bad radio the fire fighters had were all Giuliani's fault, whereas the police officers had good radios and that was why? (because of Giuliani too?)

Perhaps their blame should be placed more directly on the decision makers and their union where the supposed egalitarian will of their body was unable to make a difference.

___________________
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Click here to support the free mustard alliance.

Oh, and on another note - firefighters of NY also have Juliani to thank for really telling them about the dangers they faced at Ground Zero and how hundreds of police officers and firefighters have developed health issues and some even later died as a result of their work there, all without knowing about asbestos, burned/melted/evapourated plastic&such, as they were told the smoke and the work area was 'completely safe' by EPA and the politicians.


Sort of reminiscent of the 1998 Hamilton, Ontario (local) large recycling plant fire that quite a few firefighters got really sick about and there weren't warned of the dangers and weren't even provided with proper masks to protect themselves ...

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus eek, looks like he pissed off the fire fighters good. Though, I do sort of have to agree with Giuliani here, they seem to act a little like babies in this incidences... for instance; complaining that the bad radio the fire fighters had were all Giuliani's fault, whereas the police officers had good radios and that was why? (because of Giuliani too?) Perhaps their blame should be placed more directly on the decision makers and their union where the supposed egalitarian will of their body was unable to make a difference.

How would you feel if your friends and co-workers would be scooped into a landfill and buried there without any identification or even knowledge? Many firefighters were rightfully insulted, and this is disgraceful. The government has truly slapped them ... so many of them died and worked hard, yet they were humiliated and sidetracked, and their work was all in vain. Its a disgrace to the human remains as well.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

This letter is months old.
I remember reading it quite some time ago...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r This letter is months old. I remember reading it quite some time ago...

The importance of the letter remains the same even if it is a few months old, what exactly is your point?

Giuliani lied to the 9/11 commission, disgraced the fire fighters, rescue workers and police officers including their families.

Great hopeful for the next President we have here.

Nothing like a swift kick in the nuts, eh boys?

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Oh, and on another note - firefighters of NY also have Juliani to thank for really telling them about the dangers they faced at Ground Zero and how hundreds of police officers and firefighters have developed health issues and some even later died as a result of their work there, all without knowing about asbestos, burned/melted/evapourated plastic&such, as they were told the smoke and the work area was 'completely safe' by EPA and the politicians...

On a side note, quit blathering. Are you suggesting that they should've held a little pow-wow to discuss building insulation and health risks before marching into chaos--as if it would've made any difference?

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Nothing like a swift kick in the nuts, eh boys? On a side note, quit blathering. Are you suggesting that they should've held a little pow-wow to discuss building insulation and health risks before marching into chaos--as if it would've made any difference?

Yeah because those flimsy paper masks and the much higher grade ones are comparable.

The very little difference cost a few hundred lives and thousands more to come.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r This letter is months old. I remember reading it quite some time ago...

I believe the video is new. Not that you pay attention to details.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Nothing like a swift kick in the nuts, eh boys? On a side note, quit blathering. Are you suggesting that they should've held a little pow-wow to discuss building insulation and health risks before marching into chaos--as if it would've made any difference?

If you were a firefighter in NY and then somehow you knew about the asbestos and that it wasnt safe to operate there, would you have went there anyway with paper masks (which were discouraged because they 'scared' people). It wasnt that hard for the officials to supply more durable breathing equipment in that risky job. But, however, ever FEMA said that it was safe to work at Ground Zero, no health risks.

Firefighters are not expendable, you know. Their health is important too. From my knowledge they should be informed the kind of blaze they will be fighting and safety/health precautions - which weren't given in this case.

All that firefighters needed to hear (without a need for 5-minute discussion) is ASBESTOS. Then they could have gotten appropriate masks for their own work safety. 5 minutes tops.

EDIT: I dont think any firefighter would want to rush into a fire that has chemicals, plastic, asbestos burning and/or collapsing. You dont need to be a frigging scientist to figure out that proper breathing apparatus is required as with any safety regulations for a job.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium If you were a firefighter in NY and then somehow you knew about the asbestos and that it wasnt safe to operate there, would you have went there anyway with paper masks (which were discouraged because they 'scared' people). It wasnt that hard for the officials to supply more durable breathing equipment in that risky job. But, however, ever FEMA said that it was safe to work at Ground Zero, no health risks. Firefighters are not expendable, you know. Their health is important too. From my knowledge they should be informed the kind of blaze they will be fighting and safety/health precautions - which weren't given in this case. All that firefighters needed to hear (without a need for 5-minute discussion) is ASBESTOS. Then they could have gotten appropriate masks for their own work safety. 5 minutes tops. EDIT: I dont think any firefighter would want to rush into a fire that has chemicals, plastic, asbestos burning and/or collapsing. You dont need to be a frigging scientist to figure out that proper breathing apparatus is required as with any safety regulations for a job.

That's a touchy subject. In all honesty and not to be combative, but they probably would. As if walking into a burning building is any more safe? As if a raging inferno isn't health hazard enough. Oh, you mean a little asbestos might be involved? Ooooh...fuck that. I'm only prepared to deal with 5 alarm fires. The point is that whatever happens with this whole story, whether it haunts Guliani or not, the detail that you're choosing to go after is neither here nor there.

That's like saying a soldier wouldn't go into battle if he were told that live ammunition were involved.