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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas
Pakistan is cracking

Pakistan is cracking. The Islamists are succeeding in destabilizing the government in more ways than one. The dismissal by Masharef of the supreme court judge didn't help either. Niether did Senator Obama threatening to bomb Pakistani soil. This is ground zero in the war on al-qaida, and we're losing here. Iraq is certainly no better. Six years after September 11th, we are so much farther from victory than ever.

quote:
Pakistan may declare state of emergency

By MATTHEW PENNINGTON, Associated Press Writer
2 minutes ago



ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - The government of embattled Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf said Thursday it may impose a state of emergency because of "external and internal threats" and deteriorating law and order in the volatile northwest near the Afghan border.

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Tariq Azim, minister of state for information, said talk from the United States about the possibility of U.S. military action against al-Qaida in Pakistan "has started alarm bells ringing and has upset the Pakistani public." He mentioned Democratic presidential hopeful Barak Obama by name as an example of someone who made such comments, saying his recent remarks were one reason the government was debating a state of emergency.

But it appeared the motivation for a declaration of an emergency would be the domestic political woes of Musharraf, a key U.S. ally in the war on terrorism who took power in a 1999 coup.

His popularity has dwindled and his standing has been badly shaken by a failed bid to oust the country's chief justice — an independent-minded judge likely to rule on expected legal challenges to the Musharraf's bid to seek a new five-year presidential term this fall.

The Pakistani government's comments on a possible emergency declaration came hours after Musharraf abruptly announced he was canceling a planned trip to Kabul, Afghanistan on Thursday to attend a U.S.-backed tribal peace council aimed at curtailing cross-border militancy by the Taliban and al-Qaida.

The decision to cancel the trip appeared linked to the government's deliberations over declaring a state of emergency.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice spoke at length with Musharraf in a call that took place in the early hours of Thursday in Pakistan, a senior State Department official said. The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation, refused to discuss the substance of the 17-minute conversation.

During a state of emergency, the government can restrict the freedom to move, rally, engage in political activities or form groups and impose other limits such as restricting the parliament's right to make laws or even dissolving parliament.

"These are only unconfirmed reports although the possibility of imposition of emergency cannot be ruled out and has recently been talked about and discussed, keeping in mind some external and internal threats and the law and order situation," Azim told The Associated Press.

"I cannot say that it will be tonight, tomorrow or later. We hope that it does not happen. But we are going through difficult circumstances so the possibility of an emergency cannot be ruled out," he added.

Pakistani television networks reported that a declaration of an emergency was imminent, but other senior government officials said no final decision had been made.

No announcement had been made by daybreak Thursday. Legal experts and security officials began arriving at Musharraf's office in Islamabad at midmorning for meetings on the issue, a presidential aide said on condition on anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue. Attorney General Malik Abdul Qayyum said he had been summoned to meet Musharraf later Thursday, but he had not been told the reason.

Azim referred to recent Pakistani military action against militants in northwestern border areas that he said had resulted in the deaths of many soldiers.

Violence has been rising in the lawless region where critics say a September 2006 peace deal with local Taliban has allowed Islamic militants to thrive. The U.S. has called the deal a failure, saying it gave al-Qaida an opportunity to regroup in the region.

Meanwhile, Musharraf on Wednesday pulled out of a "peace jirga" in Kabul that is to bring more than 600 Pakistani and Afghan tribal leaders together with Afghan President Hamid Karzai.

Pakistan's Foreign Office said Musharraf had phoned Karzai Wednesday to say he couldn't attend because of "engagements" in Islamabad, and that Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz would take his place. Afghan officials said the jirga would proceed as planned without Musharraf.

Aziz held talks with Musharraf early Thursday before leaving for Afghanistan, and that he was due back in Pakistan later in the day.

In Washington, the State Department said the U.S. understands Musharraf's decision to pull out of the planned meeting in Afghanistan.

"President Musharraf certainly wouldn't stay back in Islamabad if he didn't believe he had good and compelling reasons to stay back," McCormack said. "Certainly we would understand that."

Musharraf is under growing American pressure to crack down on militants at the Afghan border because of the fears that al-Qaida is regrouping there.

The Bush administration has also not ruled out unilateral military action inside Pakistan, but like Obama, has stressed the need to work with Musharraf.

On Wednesday, Obama was asked again about his views on Pakistan.

"We can't send millions and millions of dollars to Pakistan for military aid and be a constant ally to them and yet not see more aggressive action in dealing with al-Qaida," he told reporters in Oakland, Calif.

However, he did not repeat the most incendiary line from his foreign policy speech last week when he promised: "If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will."

On Tuesday night, Obama appeared to soften his position during a debate with other Democratic presidential hopefuls.

"I did not say that we would immediately go in unilaterally. What I said was that we have to work with Musharraf, because the biggest threats to American security right now are in the northwest provinces of Pakistan."

Obama and his spokesman could not immediately be reached for comment Wednesday on Pakistan's possible declaration of a state of emergency.

One of Musharraf's worries back home is a Supreme Court hearing set for Thursday of a petition in which exiled former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif — ousted in 1999 in the coup that brought Musharraf to power — and his brother are seeking to be allowed to return to Pakistan contest parliamentary elections due by early 2008.

Speaking from London to Pakistan's Geo TV, Shahbaz Sharif, brother of Nawaz Sharif, said an emergency would be aimed at stopping two "pillars of the country, two citizens of the country" from coming back.

"This will be another blunder by Musharraf. There is no justification, no basis for emergency," he said.

Another exiled former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto — widely reported to have met with Musharraf recently in the United Arab Emirates to discuss a power-sharing deal — said that imposition of emergency would be a "drastic" step that the government should not take.

An aide to the president said Musharraf was due to meet with Cabinet ministers, the attorney-general and leaders from the ruling party on Thursday to discuss whether an emergency should be declared. He said he did not expect a declaration of an emergency in the early hours of Thursday.

A senior government official said Musharraf had held several meetings Wednesday with Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz, legal experts and top figures of the ruling party and the leaking of possible emergency plans indicated that it was a serious option.

Both the aide and the official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.

Under Pakistan's constitution, the head of state — the president — may declare a state of emergency if it is deemed that the country's security is "threatened by war or external aggression, or by internal disturbance beyond" the government's authority to control.

If a state of emergency is to be extended beyond two months, it must be approved by a joint sitting of parliament, the constitution says.


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Old Post Aug-09-2007 05:38  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada



Pakistan is solely at fault in the current Afghanistan situation. If you read about Taliban, their roots, support and funding, you'd see it going far deep in the Pakistani radical circles, and Red Mosque is just one of many of them ... there are very powerful radical forces in Pakistan that have a good shot right now at overthrowing the unpopular Pakistani government. Its also pretty dam obvious that Taliban gets most of its support from Pakistan, and the reason for growing instability in Afghanistan.

Old Post Aug-09-2007 10:43  Canada
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City
Re: Pakistan is cracking

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
Pakistan is cracking. The Islamists are succeeding in destabilizing the government in more ways than one.


Well you know what that means, right?

By golly, we need to send another surge to, uhhh, IRAQ!!!

Woohoo! We're gonna win this War on Terra! If that don't work, well hell, let's just bomb, uhh, IRAN!!!

Afterall, one of these groups are tied to Pakistan and 9/11, right?

quote:
The dismissal by Masharef of the supreme court judge didn't help either.


Not so much, no.

quote:
Niether did Senator Obama threatening to bomb Pakistani soil.


I'm sorry, but what? The AP author quotes the Pakistani Minister of Information on blaming the mess occurring in Pakistan, in part, by Obama telling us that he would go after al Qaeda (you remember, the f$ckers that actually attacked us, the ACTUAL threat from the War on Terra) someday in the far-off future SHOULD he become President (uhh, I don't think he is now, is he?)? I'm curious, but does that Minister of Info. have any actual evidence that supports his claim that a Presidential nominee with over a year to our Presidential elections somehow influenced the situation in Pakistan?

Or is that by chance just a bit of his idle speculation?

quote:
This is ground zero in the war on al-qaida, and we're losing here.


Not if we put more troops in.....IRAQ!!!! SURGE, BABY!!! SUURRRRGE!!!

quote:
Iraq is certainly no better.


Why do you hate America?

Why do you hate our troops?

Can't you see your criticisms are undermining their cause and weakening their morale?

(sorry - just can't help but throw in some of those old typical wingnut lines. Nothing against you, of course).


quote:
Six years after September 11th, we are so much farther from victory than ever.


Hmmm, whom to blame.....just can't think of anyone outside the Democrats to point the finger on.....whom to blame.......


___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Last edited by MisterOpus1 on Aug-10-2007 at 21:12

Old Post Aug-09-2007 17:01  United States
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hardcore trancer
Mystic Mind



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,Canada

Opus Nailed it once again!!!


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Old Post Aug-10-2007 00:50 
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas
Re: Re: Pakistan is cracking

quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
Well you know what that means, right?

By golly, we need to send another surge to, uhhh, IRAQ!!!

Woohoo! We're gonna win this War on Terra! If that don't work, well hell, let's just bomb, uhh, IRAN!!!

Afterall, one of these groups are tied to Pakistan and 9/11, right?



Not so much, no.



I'm sorry, but what? You're blaming the mess occurring in Pakistan, in part, by Obama telling us that he would go after al Qaeda (you remember, the f$ckers that actually attacked us, the ACTUAL threat from the War on Terra) someday in the far-off future SHOULD he become President (uhh, I don't think he is now, is he?)? I'm curious, but do you have any actual evidence that supports your claim that a Presidential nominee with over a year to our Presidential elections somehow influenced the situation in Pakistan?

Or is that by chance just a bit of your idle speculation?



Not if we put more troops in.....IRAQ!!!! SURGE, BABY!!! SUURRRRGE!!!



Why do you hate America?

Why do you hate our troops?

Can't you see your criticisms are undermining their cause and weakening their morale?




Hmmm, whom to blame.....just can't think of anyone outside the Democrats to point the finger on.....whom to blame.......


You do realize that I agree with you right? Though I may have towed the Republican hard-line a couple years back, I'm am wholly disillusioned with the party today. I hope the 2008 candidates can totally reform the party into one that does not cater to special interest groups, obeys international law, and accepts global warming as a real phenomenon at least helped in part by humans. These are some issues that have me dis-illusioned.

It appears Mr. Masharef will not declare an emergency state. He should let the elections play out next year, so he can have a soft retirement, because if he stays in power, I don't know what good could continue to come out of it. Polls show the Islamists would not gain more the 15% of the vote. I am confident that if a successful election can be held, Pakistan won't descend into chaos.


___________________

Old Post Aug-10-2007 02:18  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas
Re: Re: Pakistan is cracking

quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
I'm curious, but do you have any actual evidence that supports your claim that a Presidential nominee with over a year to our Presidential elections somehow influenced the situation in Pakistan?

Or is that by chance just a bit of your idle speculation?


Krypton didn't imply it, retard. it's in the article he posted

read the f**kin article.

...and why the hell is that so hard to believe. or is it easier to deny?

Old Post Aug-10-2007 03:36  United States
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas
Re: Re: Re: Pakistan is cracking

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
Krypton didn't imply it, retard. it's in the article he posted

read the f**kin article.

...and why the hell is that so hard to believe. or is it easier to deny?


lol, I was a little confused by what he said. I just reiterated what was in the article.


___________________

Old Post Aug-10-2007 03:49  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas

State of Emergency Rejected. Will Have Free and Fair Elections Instead.

quote:
Zeeshan Haider

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - President Pervez Musharraf rejected calls to declare emergency powers and wants Pakistan's elections to go ahead, a spokesman said on Thursday after reports the beleaguered leader would opt for authoritarian rule.

Private television channels and newspapers had reported General Musharraf was poised to take a step that would probably delay elections due by the turn of the year and could result in restrictions on rights of assembly and curbs on the media.

"In the president's view, there is no need at present to impose an emergency," Information Minister Mohammad Ali Durrani said.

"The president was under pressure from different political parties to impose an emergency, but he believes in holding a free and fair election and is not in favour of any step that hinders it," Durrani added, without specifying the parties.

Members of the ruling coalition have the most to lose at the polls, and Musharraf's own popularity has plunged since he tried in vain to oust the country's most senior judge.

Western countries with troops in Afghanistan are sensitive to any instability in nuclear-armed Pakistan, whose help is crucial to fighting the Taliban insurgency and al Qaeda.

U.S. President George W. Bush on Thursday urged Musharraf to hold a free and fair election.

"That's what we've been talking to him about and I'm hopeful they will," Bush told a news conference.

Musharraf has been a close U.S. ally since the Sept. 11 attacks in 2001, but the Bush administration has been pressing Pakistan to act against Taliban and al Qaeda fighters hiding in tribal regions on the Afghan border.


CALL FROM RICE

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice telephoned Musharraf and they discussed "the ongoing, evolving political developments in Pakistan," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack told reporters in Washington on Thursday.

A senior Bush administration official said Washington opposed any moves to declare a state of emergency.

"We are not in favor of a state of emergency and we don't think there will be a state of emergency," said the U.S. official, who spoke on condition he was not named.

Rice's top diplomat for South Asia, Richard Boucher, is due to visit Pakistan late next week on a previously scheduled trip, an official said. He declined to say whether Boucher expected to meet Musharraf.

A Pakistan government spokesman had suggested Islamabad could justify emergency rule by citing mounting insecurity after a spate of attacks, many of them suicide bombings, by Islamist militants allied to the Taliban and al Qaeda.

Deputy Information Minister Tariq Azim Khan said the measure could also be warranted by comments from politicians in Washington that the United States should be prepared to strike inside Pakistan if it had actionable intelligence about al Qaeda or Taliban targets.

But analysts and opposition leaders feared Musharraf might use emergency powers to overcome constitutional difficulties in getting re-elected by the sitting assemblies while still army chief and to stave off parliamentary elections.

Musharraf plans to get re-elected in uniform by mid-October before national and provincial assemblies are dissolved for parliamentary elections due in December or January.

He commands the simple majority needed to win re-election in the current assemblies. But there is a strong possibility constitutional challenges could be upheld by a Supreme Court that delivered a ruling on July 20 to reinstate the chief justice who Musharraf had spent four months trying to sack.


BHUTTO RELIEVED

Benazir Bhutto, Pakistan's former prime minister and the self-exiled leader of the largest opposition party, said she was "very relieved" that the reports were not true.

"I thought the imposition of emergency would be a very retrograde step and take us further away from the goal of the democratization of Pakistan," she told Reuters Television.

Bhutto, who met secretly with Musharraf in Abu Dhabi last month amid speculation of some kind of power-sharing deal, said her Pakistan People's Party was in talks aimed at promoting election reforms that would guarantee a free and fair vote.

Television news channels first reported that Musharraf was going to declare an emergency late on Wednesday night and newspapers ran banner headlines on Thursday morning. It was hours before the first definitive denial was made.

"There is no possibility of an emergency," president of the ruling Pakistan Muslim League, Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain, told reporters at parliament.

An aide to the president, speaking on condition of anonymity, said a strategy to deal with the problems Musharraf faces was being worked out but declaring an emergency had "never been under consideration during the past few days."

(With reporting by Jeremy Pelofsky and Sue Pleming and Arshad Mohammed in Washington and Natasha Israni in New York)


>LINK<

Old Post Aug-10-2007 06:11  United States
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City
Re: Re: Re: Pakistan is cracking

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
Krypton didn't imply it, retard. it's in the article he posted

read the f**kin article.


Strange as it may seem, sir, I did, and my question stands.

quote:
...and why the hell is that so hard to believe. or is it easier to deny?


Why is it hard to believe? Uhh, why is the words of one Senator who has virtually no present foreign policy influence on the situation other than his would-be presidential rhetoric somehow have such a monumental influence on the people of Pakistan that the Minister of State of Information somehow believes he is helping with the Pakistani uprise? Because that Cabinet Minister somehow walked around the uprising himself and polled each and every citizen (whom he's likely so very, very close to) and decided without a shadow of a doubt that Barrack Obama, Democratic Presidential candidate who's about 20 points or so behind the frontrunner of the Democratic Party (out of 2 parties running for the position) who incidentally Hillary's said very little similar to his remarks and both whom are about 15 months out of winning elections here and 17 or so months out from actually being in office (provided they beat the other party's candidate, not to forget), provided either one of them wins the nomination, because the Minister's people have heard and shuddered when the name "Barrack Obama" was mentioned even though it's actually George Bush, our actual President who will remain in office until January of 2009.......

....strange how I could be so skeptical?

(and I thought we were gonna drop the namecalling? Were you not warned for such labels and similar incidents in the past? And you call me the "retard" with your short-term memory in tow......)


___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Old Post Aug-10-2007 13:52  United States
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malek
drinks your milkshake!



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Montréal

easy just bomb pakistan back to the middle ages.


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Old Post Aug-10-2007 15:36 
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Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by malek
easy just bomb pakistan back to the middle ages.


Easier said than done. It is really not even an option here. A suicidal mission, nothing more.

Old Post Aug-10-2007 15:52  Canada
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City
Re: Re: Re: Pakistan is cracking

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
You do realize that I agree with you right? Though I may have towed the Republican hard-line a couple years back, I'm am wholly disillusioned with the party today. I hope the 2008 candidates can totally reform the party into one that does not cater to special interest groups, obeys international law, and accepts global warming as a real phenomenon at least helped in part by humans. These are some issues that have me dis-illusioned.


Fair enough. I apologize if my criticism was a bit more biting towards you. Often times I'm addressing the article and writer rather than the poster, and I happened to get you along with the writer a bit mixed up. I'll edit my earlier reply to make this distinction.

quote:
It appears Mr. Masharef will not declare an emergency state. He should let the elections play out next year, so he can have a soft retirement, because if he stays in power, I don't know what good could continue to come out of it. Polls show the Islamists would not gain more the 15% of the vote. I am confident that if a successful election can be held, Pakistan won't descend into chaos.


I hope not either.


___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Old Post Aug-10-2007 21:09  United States
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