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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Read This! Adopt-A-Bomb

I'm not so sure I necessarily agree with the hell-bend-for-leather attitude of the Iranians (and ilk) that the author portrays, but the Cultural Anthropomorphism is definitely intriguing since it brings up the question, "Do we really understand where Ahmadinejad / Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is coming from".
History would tell us, yes, and that's what scares us...

quote:

Adopt-A-Bomb
by Sigmund, Carl and Alfred

Cultural Anthropomorphism — The term anthropomorphism is used to denote the assignation of human characteristics and values to non-human, inanimate and even spiritual objects.

For example, we routinely refer to pets as our ‘babies’ or ‘children.’ Some people name their cars or computers. We almost always assign to God human-like characteristics and values. By doing so, we attempt to create a ‘human’ relationship that come with a certain set of expectations on our part. We elevate our pets to ‘love’ and depend on us in the same way a human child loves us. We ‘love’ our machines and they in return ‘perform’ for us. We imagine God as a wise old man, dispensing ‘mercy’ and ‘forgiveness’ in the same way we do.

In all these cases, anthropomorphous behavior is designed to foster emotional bonds and intimate relationships. We need the objects of our anthropomorphous behavior to be less distant and detached from us. We want to see them as we see ourselves, sharing similar environments, characteristics and values. The objects of our anthropomorphous behavior have traits and values like our own. Thus, when there is a ‘close relationship,’ we can forgive any missteps or bad behavior because we are in effect, forgiving ourselves.

Anthropomorphism is essentially a special sort of psychological projection where we project our own characteristics onto a variety of special objects in our lives.

One of the many negative aspects of the left’s multicultural dogma is that it fosters a kind ‘cultural’ anthropomorphism that lures those of us in the West into thinking that dysfunctional cultures and societies where political repression is a way of life are ‘like us”, when in fact they are wholly alien. In short, there are Middle Eastern cultures that don’t think like us or share our values which we have anthropomorphized into thinking are “like us”.

As talk about coexisting with an Iranian nuclear bomb escalates, we have to ask whether proponents of coexistence are engaging in the most dangerous kind of anthropomorphous behavior.

Facts on the ground show that the Iranian and Arab regimes some of the most repressive and cruel in history. They could not be more unlike the western democracies. Western societies are predicated on the notion that everyone, irrespective of race, creed or gender are endowed with equal rights. Middle Eastern regimes regimes have a deeply embedded caste system that makes non-Muslims and women second-class citizens. These groups are at best tolerated. More often than not, they are persecuted. The notion of equality between Muslims and non-Muslims is simply incomprehensible to most citizens of those nations. Can we really live with leaders of nations for whom the notion of equality is unacceptable?

Many on the Left say that—in the interests of “peace”—the West must to live with the reality of a nuclear Iran, as if that nation and the Arab nations in the region were just other Western nations. But the left is engaging in suicidally anthropomorphous behavior, assigning to some nations qualities and values similar to our own and expecting a similar kind of behavior.

Can we really live with the consequences of a nuclear Iran? Can we trust a nation where the ”Religious Police’ are all-powerful and can abuse at will — anyone they deem insufficiently obedient to the Quran?

Or should we consider the differences: in Saudi Arabia, the muttawa allowed 14 girls to burn to death in a school fire rather than permit them to escape unveiled; an Iranian judge ordered a child executed because she ‘talked back’ to him. Should we consider the cultural practice of ‘honor killings’ that pervades that part of the world relevant when calculating the “normal” behavior of a regime with a nuclear bomb?

For last decade, the Iranians and the Arab regimes like Iraq under Saddam, and Syria under the Assads, have mastered the finer points of negotiation by intimidation. Keenly aware of the west’s distaste for active confrontation, these regimes know that we prefer compromise rather than conflict. They have no problem issuing escalating threats and promises of violence if their terms are not met.

Like Chamberlain in prewar Europe, America and European nations acquiesce in a hope born of unconscious anthropomorphism provides that projects our values onto the Iranians and Arab world. We are conciliate with ever-growing haste because we need to believe that each new Iranian or Arab threat will be the last. Of course, that is never the case.

The Iranians and Arabs have come to the realization that they can intimidate us without fear of repercussion or consequence.

Our values are very different from theirs. In western societies, a leader’s strength is measured by character and respect for a free and democratic society. By contrast in the Iranian and Arab world, strength and credibility are measured by the ability to instill fear, unleash violence and to kill.

The left turns a blind eye to the Iranian reality, but can we really afford to ignore or pretend indifference to nuclear weapons in the hands of regimes that openly call for our destruction or subjugation and for whom the aforementioned behaviors are a matter of course?

One of Nazi Germany’s most notorious excesses was the Lebensborn, a program that deliberately bred blond, blue eyed, ‘perfect’ Aryan babies. Women were carefully selected as Aryan ‘breeders’ and men (most often recruited from the SS or Gestapo) were specifically chosen to inseminate these women. The idea was to produce genetically engineered children— ‘perfect’ Aryans — Supermen. Those ‘perfect’ Aryans were to be the future leaders of a ‘perfect’ Aryan nation.

In Middle East today, there is a similar kind of project, designed to produce the ‘perfect Muslim’ — another kind of Superman. Educational programs, media and religious institutions are all engaged in teaching young Muslims that by virtue of their existence, they are superior. We widely acknowledge the power of mere 30-second television commercials change behavior, yet seem to think regimes that extensively use media, schools and religious instruction to teach racism, hate and bigotry to a population from an early age will have no effect. Even a ripped-off copy of Mickey Mouse has been used to encourage martyrdom and spread psychopathy.

Culture can affect behavior. In WWII occupied Paris, a call went out from the main mosque in that city asking Muslims to shelter Jewish children from the Nazis. Parisian Muslims answered the call and thousands of lives were saved. Can we expect a similar kind of behavior today from the Parisian youths who kidnapped and murdered Ilan Halimi because he was a Jew? Can we live in a world where nuclear weapons are in the hands of this today’s Supermen and their calls to ‘slaughter the Jews!’ and promise to ‘finish what Hitler started?

While most cultures try to overcome sense of failure and shame by exerting huge efforts to correct the deficiencies that led to that failure, in shame cultures the remedy is to suppress the success of others, because the success of the ‘other’ only deepens the sense of humiliation, failure and rage. In the Middle East, pride is regained not by excelling or achieving, but rather, by destroying any contrast to humiliating failure. Only when the source of success is no longer visible will humiliation cease to exist. In the Middle East the role of the ‘other’ has been played by Israel. For decades, the Arab world and then Iran, under the mullahs, have declared their intent to destroy Israel. Only then, will their ‘pride’ be regained.

In this psychological atmosphere, Iranian or Arab nuclear weapons cannot be understood in Western terms of ‘parity’ or ‘military equality.’ Iranian or Arab bombs are acquired for far more sinister reasons. In the Middle East, every time despotic regimes acquired new armaments, they were used. That was true in 1948, 1956, 1967 and in 1973. Only by unquestioning acceptance of cultural anthropomorphism can one believe things would be any different in 2007.

In June of 2006, the Iranian Defense Minister stated that his nation would use nuclear weapons if threatened. He declined to clarify his definition of ‘threat.’ In 2001, ‘moderate’ ruling cleric Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani called on Muslim nations to use nuclear weapons against Israel. An attack would annihilate that nation while only causing ‘damage’ to the ummah.

If a day comes when the world of Islam is duly equipped with the arms Israel has in it’s possession, the strategy of colonialism would face a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb would not leave anything in Israel but the same thing would just produce damages in the Muslim world.

The question isn’t really whether or not we can live with an Iranian bomb, but rather, who may die because of an Iranian bomb.

The projection of our own values and the desire to live in peace onto Iran and the Arab world has made some in the West completely deaf to the meaning of Rafsanjani’s words and blind to the behavior bent on making them a reality.

The West’s cultural anthropomorphism and its suicidal psychological projection may indeed make Rafsanjani’s prayers prophetic.

>>Source<<


___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Old Post Oct-06-2007 17:56  Canada
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City
Re: Adopt-A-Bomb

quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
I'm not so sure I necessarily agree with the hell-bend-for-leather attitude of the Iranians (and ilk) that the author portrays, but the Cultural Anthropomorphism is definitely intriguing since it brings up the question, "Do we really understand where Ahmadinejad / Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is coming from".
History would tell us, yes, and that's what scares us...


>>Source<<


I always find it fascinating how the neocons who crave endless wars in the Middle East continually paint anyone who disagrees with them with some newly contrived psychological or sociological issue/disease.

I would counter those thoughts with a very interesting book that can be read online called "The Authoritarians", which outlines the very essence of neoconservative philosophy that has infiltrated our Executive Branch and on down:

http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeye...horitarians.pdf

One of my favorite passages on page 75:

quote:
first and foremost, followers have mainly copied the beliefs of the authorities in their lives. They have not developed and thought through their ideas as much as most people have. Thus almost anything can be found in their heads if their authorities put it there, even stuff that contradicts other stuff. A filing cabinet or a computer can store quite inconsistent notions and never lose a minute of sleep over their contradiction. Similarly a high RWA (Right Wing Authoritarian) can have all sorts of illogical, self-contradictory, and widely refuted ideas rattling around in various boxes in his brain, and never notice it.

So can everybody, of course, and my wife loves to catch inconsistencies in my reasoning when we’re having a friendly discussion about one of my personal failures. But research reveals that authoritarian followers drive through life under the influence
of impaired thinking a lot more than most people do, exhibiting sloppy reasoning, highly compartmentalized beliefs, double standards, hypocrisy, self-blindness, a profound ethnocentrism, and--to top it all off--a ferocious dogmatism that makes it unlikely anyone could ever change their minds with evidence or logic.


This demonstrates quite well the larger picture of the neoconservative warmongering culture that's dominating our Executive Branch and destroying the Republican party as a whole. This philosophy of endless wars is a perversion that's unfortunately embedded in our politics and drives our country to further confrontation.

Another interesting piece I came across involves N. Korea, which strangely through diplomatic talks we are making some headway with them.

Or is it really that strange?:

quote:
[Washington Post reporter Glenn] Kessler's two essays ... confirm independent information that this blogger has received from others close to the Iran-US diplomatic game suggesting that not only Cheney's office quashed a positive reaction to Iran's [2003] proposal [to negotiate the end of its nuclear program] but that Powell and his team did.

Powell essentially "traded" progress in North Korea for a regressive stance on Iran that Cheney's gang ws dominating.

Powell did not want to antagonize Cheney with negotiations initiatives at the same time with not just one "Axis of Evil" nation -- but TWO. That was the deal made nearly four years ago.

It is ironic that just yesterday, serious progress was logged in the US-North Korea nuclear standoff, while Cheney's team continues to dominate the rhetoric and approach to dealing with Iran.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve...of_b_41180.html


If that were true, how fucking unbelievable. And pathetic. Trading a confrontation with one country for another, ESPECIALLY when we are seeing diplomatic headway being made (i.e. not fucking going to war)?

Again, let's sort this out just to be clear:

*Talking and having diplomatic relations gives us concessions from N. Korea on its nuclear program

*Attacking and going to war in Iraq has left us in a fucking debacle

*Refusing proposals and diplomatic relations with Iran back in 2003:

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=36609

and constantly provoking a war with them has resulted in their refusal to stop "nukular" development.

Fuck, you tell me which one common sense dictates here? C'mon, neocons, which one seems to work best in current situations:

A. Endless War (Iraq, potentially Iran, Syria)

B. Diplomacy (N. Korea)

Which one, chickenhawks?

And speaking of chickenhawk warmongers, anyone else seen a common pattern here with articles like this? More often than not they RARELY directly state military confrontation. Of course that's what they want. Fuck, they crave it with their circlejerk of Keyboard Fighters. But more often than not you'll merely hear their hints of what they truly crave. But instead you'll hear articles like this that will tell us how imminently horrible the Iranians truly are and that something should happen soon. Not invasion, not bombing, not military confrontation, but something ought to be done with these crazies who're supposedly building a bomb (though we have absolutely no evidence of this at this time) and will destroy Israel and America and happily kill themselves in total world annihilation in the process.

I applaud the likes of Lieberman, Podheretz, Bill Kristol, and a handful of other neocons who've come out and stated this directly in the past. But for all the other neocon warmongers, why the games? Just say you wanna fucking nuke the place and destroy another country for fuck's sake. We know you and your children will never go to war yourselves. The least you could do is stop pussyfooting around, show your cards and demonstrate to the world just how fucking crazy you truly are with your authoritarian, warmongering mindset.


___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Old Post Oct-06-2007 18:50  United States
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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

So am I to think that you on the side that agrees that the neocons aren't finished in the slightest even after their bungling in Iraq?
Personally I can't see it happening either but some are obviously a little more vehement than others I suppose.

I don't know if I would put cultural differences under the guise of a, "contrived psychological or sociological issue/disease" were huge gaps lie.
Yes, we're all human, bleed red, etc., etc. (I'm as amicable as the next guy) but it would be foolish not to at least be weary of it given the area's deep history.
This doesn't mean that things can't be worked out ala North Korea though and it's that recent victory (for both sides) that has hopes up (at least for me).


___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Old Post Oct-06-2007 19:20  Canada
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
So am I to think that you on the side that agrees that the neocons aren't finished in the slightest even after their bungling in Iraq?
Personally I can't see it happening either but some are obviously a little more vehement than others I suppose.

I don't know if I would put cultural differences under the guise of a, "contrived psychological or sociological issue/disease" were huge gaps lie.
Yes, we're all human, bleed red, etc., etc. (I'm as amicable as the next guy) but it would be foolish not to at least be weary of it given the area's deep history.


Completely agree on foolishness. But that's not what the vast majority of neocons at BalloonJuice and elsewhere argue - they take it a step further and hint at the desire for preemptive war (again) so we don't get attacked by a bomb that's far from being made with no evidence that's it's even being made in the first place other than the country's defiance.

quote:
This doesn't mean that things can't be worked out ala North Korea though and it's that recent victory (for both sides) that has hopes up (at least for me).


Me too. But the problem is all signs about this Administration point towards a deliberate refusal to even consider talks and diplomacy with Iran on the matter, despite that obvious formula working well with N. Korea. I understand and accept the fact that every country is different and must be handled uniquely, but when we refuse to even listen like we did back in 2003 with Iran and refuse to really bring anything to the table other than sabre-rattling, what do you think the ultimate consequence will likely be?


___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Old Post Oct-06-2007 19:29  United States
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M.Johan
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2007
Location: CAIRO ,EGYPT

Neocons play a propaganda war on Iran.


___________________
"Politics is too serious a matter to be left to the politicians."



Charles de Gaulle

Old Post Oct-06-2007 19:38  Egypt
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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by M.Johan
Neocons play a propaganda war on Iran.


Er...welcome to last month?


___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Old Post Oct-06-2007 19:41  Canada
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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
Completely agree on foolishness. But that's not what the vast majority of neocons at BalloonJuice and elsewhere argue - they take it a step further and hint at the desire for preemptive war (again) so we don't get attacked by a bomb that's far from being made with no evidence that's it's even being made in the first place other than the country's defiance.

That's the problem with preemptive strikes, unless there's absolute proof before engaging, it's all hypothetical and the spin can be amazing...

quote:

Me too. But the problem is all signs about this Administration point towards a deliberate refusal to even consider talks and diplomacy with Iran on the matter, despite that obvious formula working well with N. Korea. I understand and accept the fact that every country is different and must be handled uniquely, but when we refuse to even listen like we did back in 2003 with Iran and refuse to really bring anything to the table other than sabre-rattling, what do you think the ultimate consequence will likely be?


Let's just hope that the forces inside Iran, to fight the oppression, work a little quicker than they are.
Then our question will be (hopefully) answered.
What better solution than to have sanity come from a source that's 100% familiar with the problem.


___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Old Post Oct-06-2007 19:47  Canada
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Let's just hope that the forces inside Iran, to fight the oppression, work a little quicker than they are.
Then our question will be (hopefully) answered.
What better solution than to have sanity come from a source that's 100% familiar with the problem.


It appears there might be some intelligence reports coming out that may address these concerns (and slow down the drumbeat for war, hopefully):


___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Old Post Oct-07-2007 17:10  United States
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