Hello everyone - just joined the forums tonight, and I'm very new at this production thing. I did not see this explicitly discussed in the FAQ and maybe there is no answer for this but here goes:

When producing an original trance piece these days (ie not remixes), what are the conventional source of sounds?

I understand that in a DAW, sound sources can include your own recordings, audio samples or loops from libraries, VSTi's, HW synths, etc, but which of these do people actually put to use? Is there any industry standard or commonly accepted choices?

Aside from the obvious (like vocals are obviously recorded I think?), what do people use for, say, drums? bass? Is triggering HW rompler synths via MIDI still practiced? Or is it all sample-library based these days?

I just started using Cubase and it is all that I've ever known or seen, in case that information is of use to anyone in responding to my ignorance.

Thanks in advance!

Hahah, its funny to see someone who's actually read the FAQs! I can't speak for anyone else, but personally, all my drums come from single shot samples arranged by midi, sometimes I'll use whole loops too and some people synthesise their own drums...

I don't like Romplers, but I use kontakt (sampler) for strings and things.

Synths I always get from my VST synths, never from samples. I don't actually like to get any melodic elements from samples, but some people do. Most people stick with software to get started, some people prefer hardware, but you don't NEED it. Oh, and vocals aren't always recorded, some people just use samples, but I personally prefer recorded.

Don't expect this stuff to come quickly, hang around here and maybe pick up some music magazines like future music or electronic musician, that'll get you into the groove and help you pick up some idea of how everything works. Go through Cubase and have a look at its synths and samplers, see what you can do with that to start, but don't neccesarily expect to get a complete song out until you acquire some VST synths/samplers.

This thread gives some lists of what producers are using what http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...2&forumid=48&s=

This thread might help you work out whose using what DAWs, also might help you know what questions not to ask http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...7&forumid=48&s=

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Originally posted by kitphillips Hahah, its funny to see someone who's actually read the FAQs!

I was going to say the same thing ahaha!

It's really up to you foil. Typically, I use the following:

Drums: single hit samples in a drum sampler, with loops for background sounds
Bass: synths
Leads: synths
Simple pads: synths
Complex pads: ROMplers or "hybrid" instruments
Real instrument sounds: multi-samples in a sampler

This is probably how most people do these things. However, I've heard of some big producers looping waveforms in their sampler, then using this for bass etc. rather than a synth. It's effectively the same thing afaik.

Note: you have limited control over ROM or sample based instruments, whereas you have full control over a synth.

actually it depends much more on the genre than on the elements. a lot of house producers work almost only with audio (audio tracks and sampled stuff triggered with samplers). trance producers usually wotk more with midi/synths. but beside that it's also a personal taste of the perfect workflow..

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Originally posted by echosystm looping waveforms in their sampler, then using this for bass etc. rather than a synth.

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Originally posted by thecYrus a lot of house producers work almost only with audio (audio tracks and sampled stuff triggered with samplers).

why would that be? I've never quite understood. is it to get a pitched up sound or to have the same effects on every note?

A I understand it, house is generally more focussed on beats, less on huge melodic pads. If there are elements of melody they're often lifted from other tracks, so theres really no need for them to use synths a lot of the time. They don't need the control over the sounds that trance producers often do. I think that synths are often used for basses though..?

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foil,

The first thing that hit me was the old algebra acronym 'F.O.I.L.', you know, First Outer Inner Last, and not a thinly pressed metal.

Anyway, welcome to the forum. It already seems that you know basic terms and such, which is a great help.

I hope to not regurgitate what's been said, but I honestly believe the methods you use can help to shape your sound. For instance, lately I've been experimenting with creating a synth line from a VSTi and then loading it into a sampler and going from there. Depending on what style your going for you might create all of your percussion out of synths and then maybe load them into a sampler or not.

All in all, start with what would be easiest for you to learn and experiment with (consider finances in the equation as well, you don't need to start buying HW stuff and big name VSTi's all of the sudden to learn or make a good sound). When you get the hang of that, try it a different way and see if it's better or not.

If you make 6/8 breakbeats, though, don't try and sell it as the next big thing. The lynchmob 'll get ya.

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Originally posted by kitphillips A I understand it, house is generally more focussed on beats, less on huge melodic pads. If there are elements of melody they're often lifted from other tracks, so theres really no need for them to use synths a lot of the time. They don't need the control over the sounds that trance producers often do. I think that synths are often used for basses though..?

ahh ok..then its not the case with electro house.

Who knows. They could all be sampling that same fart sound for electro house.

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Thanks everyone for their insight thus far!

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The first thing that hit me was the old algebra acronym 'F.O.I.L.', you know, First Outer Inner Last, and not a thinly pressed metal.

Yea, the handle was chosen intentionally for its vagueness of connotation - literature, algebra, aerodynamics, fencing, kitchen supplies, whatever. Can ambiguity still be catchy? I have a hard time imagining a name like "DJ Foil" gaining notoriety.

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Anyway, welcome to the forum. It already seems that you know basic terms and such, which is a great help. I hope to not regurgitate what's been said, but I honestly believe the methods you use can help to shape your sound. For instance, lately I've been experimenting with creating a synth line from a VSTi and then loading it into a sampler and going from there. Depending on what style your going for you might create all of your percussion out of synths and then maybe load them into a sampler or not.

I'm not very sure what you mean here. Maybe I don't know the terms well enough. What exactly is the role of a sampler and how do they work with a DAW? Correct me if I'm wrong, they are ultimately (after the sound sculpting) midi-triggered, right? I had brief exposure with a Digital Performer + Kontact setup, but otherwise have never seen a sampler in action.

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All in all, start with what would be easiest for you to learn and experiment with (consider finances in the equation as well, you don't need to start buying HW stuff and big name VSTi's all of the sudden to learn or make a good sound). When you get the hang of that, try it a different way and see if it's better or not.

After investing in Cubase I don't have much of a budget left. I do, however, have access to a Motif and a Triton. The heart of my initial question is this: would a DAW and high-level synth workstation alone be enough to create a "respectable" sound? Between the built-in effects on the workstations and the bundled VST's in Cubase (Studio), would there be enough to de-cheesify the basic patches?

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If you make 6/8 breakbeats, though, don't try and sell it as the next big thing. The lynchmob 'll get ya.

Other than being undanceable (is that a word?), is there any other reason why triples are so abhored in trance? (Or is that is reason enough?)

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Originally posted by Zild Who knows. They could all be sampling that same fart sound for electro house.

ROFL!

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Originally posted by foil Can ambiguity still be catchy? I have a hard time imagining a name like "DJ Foil" gaining notoriety.

Yes, and, I've heard worse!

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Originally posted by foil I'm not very sure what you mean here. Maybe I don't know the terms well enough. What exactly is the role of a sampler and how do they work with a DAW? Correct me if I'm wrong, they are ultimately (after the sound sculpting) midi-triggered, right? I had brief exposure with a Digital Performer + Kontact setup, but otherwise have never seen a sampler in action.

Yeah, samplers are triggered by midi. Instead triggering an oscilator ot create a waveform (as in a synth), they trigger a sample to be played. Sometimes a sample will be playable by a range of keys to affect the speed/pitch (like you might do if you're sampling a piano or other melodic things), and others assign a sample to a single key (typically for percussion). There aren't rules, mind you, but that's typical.

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Originally posted by foil After investing in Cubase I don't have much of a budget left. I do, however, have access to a Motif and a Triton. The heart of my initial question is this: would a DAW and high-level synth workstation alone be enough to create a "respectable" sound? Between the built-in effects on the workstations and the bundled VST's in Cubase (Studio), would there be enough to de-cheesify the basic patches?

For now, I don't think you're limited by the capabilities of a Motif or Triton. I've heard respectable sound come from much less!

There are great sources for free VSTi's and effects online. KVRAudio.com is just one site.

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Originally posted by foil Other than being undanceable (is that a word?), is there any other reason why triples are so abhored in trance? (Or is that is reason enough?)

No, but someone recently was pushing hard for its popularity to expand. Just recalling a recent occurance, really.