I could give a suggestion, musically, but I won't go there.

Technically, I haven't produced any electro-house bass like this. Personally, however, I would take a closer look at the kick though. I like it, but many others might not because it is more "click" than "kick". My recommendation would be to beef up the kick just a little (maybe change it), and then multiband-sidechain just to make the bassline duck only a little to get the kick through.

That's all I have for now... I could be dead wrong...

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quote:

Originally posted by B_man I could give a suggestion, musically, but I won't go there. Technically, I haven't produced any electro-house bass like this. Personally, however, I would take a closer look at the kick though. I like it, but many others might not because it is more "click" than "kick". My recommendation would be to beef up the kick just a little (maybe change it), and then multiband-sidechain just to make the bassline duck only a little to get the kick through. That's all I have for now... I could be dead wrong...

I always had problems with kick EQ and compression and I still do. Pity. Ive sidechained the bass a little as you said, it works fine makes bassline a little more pumpy. Good sugestion. Ive wrote that I dont need musical sugestion because I didnt expect there is something to improve in such basic bassline although if there is (or you have some vision) I would be grateful if you tell it. I'm weak at music so sugestion how to built-up this tune are welcome Thank you B_man

First, don't mix so loud. I'm getting really tired of saying this everywhere but the kick has to peak at about -8.5 dB (-8.2 dB is fine in FL Studio, since it defaults to that anyway) so that you have enough room to build on. If your kick is peaking at 0.0 dB, how can you expect to add other instruments without causing clipping?

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Well, I assumed that he compressed what he had (master).

It's not too bad a thing if you are turning the compressor off while mixing... I do that all the time and compress for samples/forum-releases (please tell me if this is stupid).

My current trance track has the kick peaking at -7.7db in isolation, while the master peaks at about -4.4db with hats, 3 bassline parts, and clap. I have been turning my stuff down ever since I stopped starting track with the kick at -0.xdb, honest.

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quote:

Originally posted by B_man Well, I assumed that he compressed what he had (master).

There is no point mastering (compressing or whatnot) before the mix is completed. It's a waste of time and puts your mix in the wrong light.

quote:

It's not too bad a thing if you are turning the compressor off while mixing... I do that all the time and compress for samples/forum-releases (please tell me if this is stupid).

In my opinion there shouldn't be a compressor on the mix bus at all. And yes, I do think it's stupid to do a half-assed compress job for samples/forum releases because people like me can't help you get the mix better. Mastering puts the mix in a final state, and it's hard to tell what needs to be changed to make the sound better when the dynamics have been compromised.

quote:

My current trance track has the kick peaking at -7.7db in isolation, while the master peaks at about -4.4db with hats, 3 bassline parts, and clap. I have been turning my stuff down ever since I stopped starting track with the kick at -0.xdb, honest.

That sounds alright, but it might not leave you much room once everything else is added. Ideally you want to aim for a maximum peak amplitude of -3.0 dB, but find a level that works for you.

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Put an end to the loudness war. Don't limit or compress your mixdown until mastering; leave the master channel alone.

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although there are a sugestions which level gain should peak for drums basses, leads, pads and so on. I thought the right level for kick is 0 db (got this properity frome here http://www.orange-fields.com/widepa...easleeprec.html). So what about the bass?? where gain should be peaking?
OH and btw After I compress kick and bass separetly I put them into one mixer chanel and compress together. is it right?
And which effect should I add to bass to improve it? I used only reverb and chorus a bit (+compression and eq of course)(v-station)

Ps yes I mastered it and it looks like I wanted to cheat myself :P

Last edited by PTR on Nov-04-2007 at 12:24

quote:

Originally posted by PTR although there are a sugestions which level gain should peak for drums basses, leads, pads and so on. I thought the right level for kick is 0 db (got this properity frome here http://www.orange-fields.com/widepa...easleeprec.html). So what about the bass?? where gain should be peaking? OH and btw After I compress kick and bass separetly I put them into one mixer chanel and compress together. is it right? And which effect should I add to bass to improve it? I used only reverb and chorus a bit (+compression and eq of course)(v-station) Ps yes I mastered it and it looks like I wanted to cheat myself :P

You'll have to point me a bit more in the right direction, but that's probably talking about dBVU. In FL Studio, leave the sample volume at default (78%), and the associated mixer volume at default (100%), and it should come out peaking at at most -8.2 dB. Leave the master volume at default (100%) also. It was all designed that way.

As for bass, that's usually the next question I get asked. It totally depends on the bass, and I have no real experience producing to give you a suggested value, so go based on your ears.

You can compress the kick and bass together if that's what you want. Set the makeup gain so the level sounds the same with the compressor bypassed and you should be able to hear the difference and which sounds better.

Use whichever effects you think improve the bass.

___________________
Put an end to the loudness war. Don't limit or compress your mixdown until mastering; leave the master channel alone.

Contact me for mastering.

quote:

Originally posted by PTR although there are a sugestions which level gain should peak for drums basses, leads, pads and so on. I thought the right level for kick is 0 db (got this properity frome here http://www.orange-fields.com/widepa...easleeprec.html). So what about the bass?? where gain should be peaking? OH and btw After I compress kick and bass separetly I put them into one mixer chanel and compress together. is it right? And which effect should I add to bass to improve it? I used only reverb and chorus a bit (+compression and eq of course)(v-station) Ps yes I mastered it and it looks like I wanted to cheat myself :P

you won't be able to improve it until you can describe the problen. So far all you've mentioned is that it doesn't sound loud enough. If someone told me that was their problem , i would tell them to turn the volume up. Describe your problem in more detail if you really want advice that will help. Stop asking questions like what plugin should i put on it. This is rediculous and impossible to answer. The answer is every plugin or no plugin. Until you really narror your issue and what you want it to sound like , its gonna be hard to help.

Thanks for the tips... It wasn't too long ago that I use to mix everything at high volume and depend on my master compressor settings to clean up the mess. It's amazing how 'squashed' my tracks sounded back then. When I took the compressor off the master-bus it wass 'clip city'.

Wow... those were the days. If I wanted a little distortion on the kick, I said: "Oh, look, if the bar turns red (0.7 db) the kick automatically has a little more distortion, and it sounds louder too! How resourceful can I get!?" I've regained some sanity since then.

LOL... those were the days when a compressor actually made my mix sound quieter, but took away some of the fuzz that I disliked.

Yesterday, my philosophy was: I mix at low volume, but I still "master" my own tracks just to accomplish a louder volume until the day comes when I can hire that service out. I thought it was more 'hip' to have something that sounded slightly higher volume than an unmastered mixdown.

Today... I will officially not touch the master bus unless it's fading in the track, or something silly like that. I guess I should learn something new everyday.

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I'm just wondering where the exact number -8.5 (or -8.2) dB comes from? Seems perfectly reasonable as a rule of thumb, of course, but the frequency spectrum of the bassline is going to have a major impact on how loud the kick can be (unless you use the sickeningly overused bass-ducking strategy).

Not to mention the spectrum of the kick itself. A different kick can completely change the whole mix balance.

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quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut I'm just wondering where the exact number -8.5 (or -8.2) dB comes from?

The -8.2 dB comes from the fact that FL Studio's internal mixer halves the volume, or reduces it by 6.02 dB (log(50/100)*20). The sample volume then defaults to 78%, which takes off a further 2.16 dB (log(78/100)*20) to give a peak amplitude of -8.18 dB on a 0.0 dB sample. I guess the developers thought -8.0 dB (80%) was a little too high, so they made the sample volume default to 78%. They also could have gone lower, as Reason has done with -8.9 dB, which led me to suggest my own setting of -8.52 dB (which also happens to be an exact 37.5%).

quote:

Seems perfectly reasonable as a rule of thumb, of course, but the frequency spectrum of the bassline is going to have a major impact on how loud the kick can be (unless you use the sickeningly overused bass-ducking strategy).

Yes, but you still want to start with a reference level on which to build on, and -8.5 dB just so happens to work most of the time when it comes to dance music.

quote:

Not to mention the spectrum of the kick itself. A different kick can completely change the whole mix balance.

Yes, but most kick samples will have an attack that peaks at or close to 0.0 dB, with the tail not too far off, and this level of bass just so happens to sit well when the entire kick peaks at -8.5 dB. If the bass portion of the kick hits maximum amplitude, it should still work most of the time, but if not just have the kick peak a little lower.

___________________
Put an end to the loudness war. Don't limit or compress your mixdown until mastering; leave the master channel alone.

Contact me for mastering.