Absolutely have an impossible time trying to create a decent sounding filler. Anybody got any advice or can point in any directions to assist? One major problems is my ear finds it hard to pick up them up - trance fillers are usually higher frequencies, fast, and soft compared to the rest of the mix (as opposed to minimal or techno or something where you can just tell what's going on... I think). I grab a few open and closed hats samples, and no matter what pattern I create or even how I eq or if I add some delay or whatever... It never sounds like a trance filler (though it may sound interesting).... AHH?? Does anybody know what I mean or am I going mentalllllllllll

Like ok yeah I get a few hats... The nice closed one is on the no the off beat but the one in between Kick hat Snare hat. Maybe a light ride in the background on every 4th beat. Maybe in this filler I have a shaker with the volume/velocity/whatever going up and down. Maybe the whole thing has the eq cut down low and boosted up top. Then maybe I put a few other hats. Some syncopation if it sounds okay the shaker or main repeating hat on every beat. Maybe I get rid of the shaker if it is making it sound less drummy and more tribal. Trying different samples. Trying different eq. Listening to some trance tracks and trying to listen to what is playing. Still not working. I'm going nuts

One thing I like to do is take a full breakbeat and put a hi-pass filter on it, then maybe some delay. And that is a pretty good filler, if I understand what u mean by filler. eg- not a fill, but something to fill the mixx with drums or hats, correct?

Every track you work on you'll run in to these issues, the secret is having an array of tricks up your sleeve and to try them all until you get either A) the result you were after... or B) not the result you were after but it's cool anyway

Couple ideas here..

Get some of your basic percussion in first..

kick
clap or clap/snare combo or whatever works for you there...
closed hat
open hat
shaker
ride

mute the kick/clap.. bounce it down as a stereo audio file bring it back in, then stuff around with it. Perhaps widen it, high-pass filter it, give it some delay.. gate it, bitcrush it... run it through a vocoder.. try em all out and bring that back in over your original basic percussion.

With your basic percussion try use more than one closed hat and shaker even.. pan them differently and experiment with the pattern so the hats go from left to right.

Use ghost notes: IE with a clap pattern:
| ...x | X... | ...x | X.... |

the X is the main clap and the x would be the same sample at much lower volume/velocity.

You can also try create loops using bongos, djembes or tablas and use it either dry or you could cut that up and mess with it too.

Breakbeat style patterns can be cut up and the same thing applied to it.

Another option is to use a synth to make some percussive sounds, or take samples and mess with the sample indivually to create some unique percussion sounds, be they metallic or hollow sounding etc.

Some plate reverb works well with some perc elements, put a sidechain compressor on some of your perc too can give it a roll. Sometimes instead of side-chaining to the kick, sidechain to an offbeat kick pattern like: | X... | .... | X... | .... | ... or make the whole 1 bar sidechain signal an audio file and alter the velocities of the kicks in the signal to dynamically alter the amount of compression through the pattern.

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Find a percussion loop you like, slice it up at each drum hit and rearrange the slices to create your own pattern.
Finding samples that sound good together is difficult, so this is a good technique.
Don't make the pattern too complex or it might sound too busy. You want a pattern that syncopates with the beat.

quote:

Originally posted by Eldritch Finding samples that sound good together is difficult

Really?

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808 and 909 samples always seems to fit good.

Sebastien - it may be worth grabbing a sample CD with a bunch of "trance filler loops" - the really obvious ones being Vengeance Essential Clubsounds 1 and 2. Yes, they're used in heaps and heaps of tracks, and sometimes producers don't change them or do anything to them at all, so they're instantly recognisable.

But you'll have a whole bunch of examples to analyse (or modify), so you'll be able to hear what these loops sound like without any kicks or basses or synths getting in the way. Then you'll have a clearer idea of how to make your own.

Eldritch - that's a good idea. The sounds in loops generally fit together really well, so chopping it into the individual hits sounds like a quick way to go. Faster than searching through a bunch of samples for sounds that fit together. I mean, that's fun too, and generally the sounds fall into place pretty quickly, but chopping up loops sounds even quicker. I'll try that for this weekend's track.

Wow Johno and derail those responses have really helped me already. I have VECS2 but never thought of just sort of copying/editing/analysing the already made filler loops. And some of the techniques you mentioned Johno are fantastic too.. Thanks a lot guys big help. I think a pro-sounding filler makes or breaks a song... Anyways cheers

I only just started to really get some halfway decent drum loops going, so I know what your going through
Why don't you make a kick loop, just 4/4 and then add different things to it and experiment. Try putting stuff on the 8th notes to start and then try 16ths, what you'll find is that the 16ths make the sound more "complex", even if you're not putting more actual notes in.
Most loops are 4 bars long, so create a basic pattern then repeat 4 times and change it a bit each time, or maybe just the last time.
Also try making some non 4 to the floor type beats, maybe a 2 or 4 step, this might give you some idea how different beats work.
Most beats revolve around a certain element, in a two step beat its the snare, which falls regularly on every 2nd and 4th note, then you add more stuff in around that, maybe including a fancy breakbeat kick and maybe more snares.
Most loops will include a closed hat, an open hat, snare and kick, you sometimes also find bongos, congas, tablas and djembes as well, especially in electro.
Otherwise, its really just a matter of practise.

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quote:

Originally posted by Lucidity One thing I like to do is take a full breakbeat and put a hi-pass filter on it, then maybe some delay.

I do more or less the same. Sometimes I find a breaks loop at the same tempo as my track (or find a loop in Stylus RMX where the tempo matches automatically) and distort the shit out of it or mess with it completely.

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quote:

Originally posted by Blahzaay I do more or less the same. Sometimes I find a breaks loop at the same tempo as my track (or find a loop in Stylus RMX where the tempo matches automatically) and distort the shit out of it or mess with it completely.

Same here, however, creating your own loop gives you more options to make variations to the loop