Yes, strage title indeed. But I've noticed a recurring pattern for many wise saying and wisdom in general. Wisdom, for the most part if not entirely, seems to be very 'inductive' in nature as opposed to deductive... which also explains why most rationalists entirely lack it and / or have no understanding of many concept and traditions in the human experience that don't exhibit a well defined rigid approach like deduction. Thoughts?

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Religion = inductive
Science = deductive
Quantum physics = inductive

STRANGE...

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Religion = inductive

? maybe you meant to use "counter-productive" "creative" or "destructive" ?

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Religion = inductive Science = deductive Quantum physics = inductive STRANGE...

It's interesting that you should say that, because I was pretty much an athiest (more like agnostic though) until I started studying physics way back in high school, and I'm not even talking about quantum physics or string theory... but stuff as simple as newtonian physics. I still don't understand the creationist argument though... I can see how one might see the balance, extremely intricate, [sacred or otherwise] geometry, or several other mathematical correspondences in the finer aspects of nature as a 'sign' of God... but to call that a science is just pure unadultrated bullshit. Interestingly enough, I find something like that a lot easier to 'see' or appreciate if you're a "scientist" who's studied advanced mathematical and scientific disciplines. The strongest 'argument' for faith for me personally didn't exist until I studied logic formally.

I'm deviating on a tangent here though, as the reference was to wisdom in general and not widom that can be found specifically in 'religious' texts. That doesn't require a belief in God.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN ? maybe you meant to use "counter-productive" "creative" or "destructive" ?

None of those are forms of reasoning.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z It's interesting that you should say that, because I was pretty much an athiest (more like agnostic though) until I started studying physics way back in high school, and I'm not even talking about quantum physics or string theory... but stuff as simple as newtonian physics. I still don't understand the creationist argument though... I can see how one might see the balance, extremely intricate, [sacred or otherwise] geometry, or several other mathematical correspondences in the finer aspects of nature as a 'sign' of God... but to call that a science is just pure unadultrated bullshit. Interestingly enough, I find something like that a lot easier to 'see' or appreciate unless you're a "scientist" who's studied advanced mathematical and scientific disciplines. The strongest 'argument' for faith for me personally didn't exist until I studied logic formally. I'm deviating on a tangent here though, as the reference was to wisdom in general and not widom that can be found specifically in 'religious' texts. That doesn't require a belief in God.

To me, creationism is misinformed. But there is also no doubt in my mind where the order of the universe comes from. It sure didn't pop up out of nothing. The creationist argument though is not based on an empirical method of deducing facts.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN ? maybe you meant to use "counter-productive" "creative" or "destructive" ?

Do you speak spanish (two question marks surrounding the question)?

EDIT: Whoops, I meant to say "¿Hablas español?"

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton None of those are forms of reasoning.

precisely!

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z (two question marks surrounding the question)?

haha, that was actually 2 sentences in my lazy-type

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN haha, that was actually 2 sentences in my lazy-type

and that type is?????????

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN precisely!

I get your point...but religion clearly uses inductive reasoning to explain questions such as..."Where does physical and mathematical order come from?"

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Wisdom, for the most part if not entirely, seems to be very 'inductive' in nature as opposed to deductive...

But isn't wisdom created from gained past experience (whether your own or someone else's) hence being deductive?

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r But isn't wisdom created from gained past experience (whether your own or someone else's) hence being deductive?

Well, it is almost a function of experience but the logic is not A -> B where we know A is true. But instead we notice a pattern of B's where A is mostly true but not always. At the discretion of the person considering the statement, the applicability of it depends on the circumstances and situations rather than being a "universal constant" which makes it very hard for someone who can't think in a non-linear fashion to understand. Deduction is a simple process intelligible to anyone but inductive reasoning and recursive structures are generally far more sophisticated requiring a lot more caution and an advanced understanding for them to make any sense to most people.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller