quote:

They're wrong. Every human life counts. Your life counts. You have a right to live it as you choose, to follow your bliss. You have a right to seek satisfaction in accomplishment. And if you chase after the almighty dollar, you just might find that you are led, as if by an invisible hand, to do things that improve the lives of others.

Amen.

In fact, it is nearly impossible to make money in a free economy WITHOUT helping others in some way. That is the nature of capitalism. You can't build wealth for yourself without satisfying the needs and desires of others. In a free market, helping your fellow man is the key to your own success. Those who make others HAPPY (whether intentional or not) tend to acquire the most wealth. Very few politicians understand this simple truth. They tend to criticize and punish the successful, which ultimately hurts all of us.

David Bozo's comment's and attitude is exactly why right-wing capitalist economies are fucked socially. High poverty and high crime. I don't think Obama is telling people they shouldn't follow their own desires, he's saying that that's not all they should be striving for.

Individualism and materialism is why my society and your society is fucked. Everybody is so selfish and care only about themselves. This is an attitude personified by the ruling elite (and by that I'm talking about the big corporations and their allies in government) because if people weren't so selfish, if they didn't live under the illusion that "everyone can be a millionaire" then they'd begin to stick up for each other and that would be bad for these elites who rely on the poor to keep their dollars rolling in to maintain their privileged positions in society.

You two fall for it hook line and sinker every time, they must have seen you comin a mile off

Still holding out hope that you can change human nature eh smiley?

It would be nice if the world could hold hands and sing kum bay yah...but that is not going to happen. You have 10,000 years of human evolution working against you. The fact is that we live in a world of finite resources, and in any system of finite resources there will be competition. Individuals will ALWAYS place a higher value on the well-being of themselves and their families than on random strangers down the street. You can call this "selfishness", but in a world of limited resources it is inevitable.

Unfortunately you lefties fail to recognize this and keep trying to impose policies that fight the natural order of things...using government force to fight the human instinct for self preservation...to fight the natural desire of men compete, excel, and prosper. This anti-achievement "do-gooder" attitude has done far more damage to society than any level of "greed" from private business owners.

The left claims to "feel" for the unemployed...to sympathize with them..but it is impossible to count the number of people who don't have jobs because government has made the cost of doing business so prohibitive in places like France, etc. Endless regulations/restrictions/taxes/fees have created millions of artificial failures on modern mixed economies. People who might have gone into business, or might have been employed by a business are never counted in the census. Corporate greed is often blamed for unemployment, but in reality, these people are the invisible victims of do-gooder government intervention.

If you want to elevate society, get government out of the way.

While I agree with the gist of what you said above, there are some things I need to point out:

Of course individuals will put a higher priority on themselves/close associates than strangers. But prioritising doesn't have to mean excluding. It also doesn't mean placing the same priority on others as yourself, only that you place some on others. It doesn't mean you have to physically go out and help people, your attitude can help. Take tax - if people realised the benefits of tax to society instead of viewing them as "theft" then governments would be in much better positions to help citizens in times of crisis, as it is, if extra revenues are needed to help people then it's almost impossible to raise the necessary taxes without facing a revolt, and hence, those most in need are neglected by society

And I completely disagree with your theory on unemployment. There is more than enough capital in both our societies to give every single man woman and child a high standard of living, yet millions are forced to live in poverty while a few at the top live their millionaire lifestyles. Without government employment legislation (if such a thing even exists in America! lol) then companies would hire even less, pay even less and make workers work all the hours god sends (ever heard of the Victorian work houses? Or working conditions in 19th century Britain? That is exactly what you are calling for when you say governments should be kept out of employement because that is exactly what happened)

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley And I completely disagree with your theory on unemployment. There is more than enough capital in both our societies to give every single man woman and child a high standard of living

Of course there is enough capital to do this, but I get the sense that you (and other lefties) simply don't understand where this capital came from..

Capital is not a natural resource. It is not something that automatically renews itself regardless of the circumstances. Bad policies that discourage investment and risk taking will cause that pool of capital to dry up fairly quickly. Socialist legislation such as income and profit caps have an effect on incentives, and when looking at the economy you must take incentives into account. They have a huge effect on employment and everything else. You can't just take existing capital for granted...You must understand where it came from and WHY it exists in the first place.

quote:

Without government employment legislation (if such a thing even exists in America! lol) then companies would hire even less, pay even less..

I have no idea what you mean by "employment legislation". I don't think we have that in America. Companies hire and fire people as they need to. Obviously no company wants to hire more employees than they need. That would be a waste of money and make the enterprise much more likely to fail. In a free market, a business will always hire enough to get the job done, no more and no less. If they succeed, they can obviously hire more people. A successful businessman will create hundreds or THOUSANDS of new jobs for the unemployed, not because he is compassionate...but because it is IN HIS INTEREST to do so. He is motivated by profit, and this motivation (incentive) is what creates wealth for other people as well as himself. Adam Smith was 100% right with his invisible hand argument.

quote:

make workers work all the hours god sends (ever heard of the Victorian work houses? Or working conditions in 19th century Britain?

I think we discussed this "We'll go back to sweatshops" argument previously. Those old "work houses" you refer to are part of a transition period that every developing economy experiences. If we abolished all labor laws today in the USA, we would not go back to those working conditions because so many other alternatives are available to people. In modern economies, the infrastructure is built and there is largely an equilibrium between jobs and employees. In the 1800s when you had many people emigrating from farmland to fast growing cities, there was a huge oversupply of labor. That combined with a lack of infrastructure led to very bad working conditions...but as I said, this is a necessary transition period and we have moved beyond it. I have no problem with basic laws against child labor, etc...but you and I know government today goes FAR BEYOND protecting people from physical abuse.. The permit process..zoning laws, the endless red tape force small entrepreneurs to make a huge investment in both time and money if they want to get into the market, and ironically most of this legislation serves to BENEFIT the big monopolies, since they are the only ones who can afford to cut through the legal garbage.

When I say "get out of the way", I don't mean that the government should ignore obvious abuses. I simply mean that the government doesn't need to be involved in every tiny detail in the economic sphere. It needs to stop sticking it's nose (and claws) into the orifice of everyone trying to achieve their dreams. We should reduce government barriers to success (and yes TAXES are one of these things). Step back and let the people breathe for a change, and prosperity will come naturally.

I know this is difficult for a socialist to accept, but you will see that by "doing nothing" for a while, you will actually be helping those most in need.

quote:

Sen. Obama told the students that "our individual salvation depends on collective salvation." He disparaged students who want to "take your diploma, walk off this stage, and chase only after the big house and the nice suits and all the other things that our money culture says you should buy." The people Mr. Obama is sneering at are the ones who built America – the traders and entrepreneurs and manufacturers who gave us railroads and airplanes, housing and appliances, steam engines, electricity, telephones, computers and Starbucks. Ignored here is the work most Americans do, the work that gives us food, clothing, shelter and increasing comfort. It's an attitude you would expect from a Democrat.

I don't think this is terribly "well said." In the first place, a person who wants to "take [his or her] diploma, walk off this stage, and chase only after the big house and the nice suits and all the other things that our money culture says you should buy" is hardly the characterization of an entrepreneur. Entrepreneurs often must eschew such luxuries, at least in the short run, in order to invest in the development of their businesses. Mr. Boaz clearly must realize this, so his attempt at criticism comes off as very contrived here.

quote:

"A greater cause," "community service" – to many of us, these gauzy phrases sound warm and comforting. But their purpose is to disparage and denigrate our own lives, to belittle our own pursuit of happiness. They're concepts better suited to a more collectivist country than to one founded in libertarian revolution – a revolution intended to defend our rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Hmph. The pursuit of happiness is a fool's errand. Happiness is not something that you pursue or obtain, it's only a mechanism that our brains use to reinforce those behaviors that produced particularly successful outcomes in the past with regards to a particular goal or goals. Trying to make happiness, itself, the goal only short-circuits this operation and impairs mental and psychological function.

Granted, making it one's goal to increase the material wealth of the lower class or to participate in military engagements that produce negative utility both for the individuals involved and for the affected societies generally are both of comparably dubious value. But the more general idea of having acutal, meaningful goals rather than participating in the counter-productive "pursuit of happiness" is a sound one.

It's a pity because the emphasis on the individual, rather than the collective, that this piece attempts to encourage is one that is badly needed. But simply leaving the average person to his or her own devices, so that they can foolishly pursue whatever they think will make them "happy" is not a sound means by which to promote individual well-being. Given the current state of affairs, it's quite the opposite, in fact.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Individualism and materialism is why my society and your society is fucked. Everybody is so selfish and care only about themselves.

Trust me it isn't only in the US or UK.

quote:

if they didn't live under the illusion that "everyone can be a millionaire" then they'd begin to stick up for each other and that would be bad for these elites who rely on the poor to keep their dollars rolling in to maintain their privileged positions in society.

Actually it is very possible for Americans to become decimillionaires in their lifetime. But many are just stupid when it comes to creating wealth from their money so many won't ever become decimillionaires. Look if you save money and invest it in the stock market(mutual fund) and you keeop putting money in each month. Chances are when you want to retire you are going to have over a million dollars and the retirement age for Americans is 67 so all you really need to live off for the remainder of your life is 800 000 dollars. But most don't have that sort of money because they don't invest in themselves. Blame American people for not being rich as they could be.

more email spam Shakka?

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka The people Mr. Obama is sneering at are the ones who built America – the traders and entrepreneurs and manufacturers who gave us railroads and airplanes, housing and appliances, steam engines, electricity, telephones, computers and Starbucks. Ignored here is the work most Americans do, the work that gives us food, clothing, shelter and increasing comfort. It's an attitude you would expect from a Democrat.

STARBUCKS?! How could he forget the founding fathers of Starbucks! Why thats just craazzy!



All hail His Frappuccino Highness! Godspeed Mr. Schultz, godspeed.

no, not spam. A good editorial piece written by the good ole Cato Institute.

I wonder how many private sector jobs Mr. Schultz gets credit for creating?

Probably not enough to offset the ones lost to McBush policies.

What are you trying to say? Last I checked there's still a Starbucks on almost every street corner, not to mention the ones outside of the U.S.