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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas
New York Times defends not running McCain op-ed

I kind of support their rejection, because Obama's op-ed was mostly about his policy in Iraq and Afghanistan with some criticisms of McCain. I believe McCain should be able to answer Obama's criticism, but it seems like McCain's op-ed was ALL ABOUT criticizing Obama, when what the paper is looking for is McCain's policy on Iraq and Afghanistan. All he has to do is rewrite it to fit that model.



quote:
New York Times defends not running McCain op-ed

By ANN SANNER, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 58 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The New York Times defended its decision not to publish an op-ed article as submitted by Republican John McCain about the Iraq war on grounds it customarily reviews such pieces with the author.

McCain's presidential campaign submitted the op-ed on Friday. In it, the Arizona senator describes how the buildup of U.S. forces in Iraq has helped curb violence. He also chides Democratic rival Barack Obama for outlining his plan for Iraq before his current meetings there with commanders and Iraqi leaders.

In an e-mail to the campaign on Friday, David Shipley, an op-ed editor at the newspaper, said he could not accept the piece in its current form, but would look at another version. In the e-mail, released by McCain's campaign, Shipley wrote that McCain's article would "have to lay out a clear plan for achieving victory — with troops levels, timetables and measures for compelling the Iraqis to cooperate. And it would need to describe the senator's Afghanistan strategy, spelling out how it meshes with his Iraq plan."

Commenting Monday on the Times' request, McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds said, "John McCain believes that victory in Iraq must be based on conditions on the ground, not arbitrary timetables. Unlike Barack Obama, that position will not change based on politics or the demands of The New York Times."

Bounds said the campaign will not submit a revised op-ed.

In a written statement Monday, the Times explained its decision and left the door open to publishing his views:

"It is standard procedure on our op-ed page, and that of other newspapers, to go back and forth with an author on his or her submission. We look forward to publishing Sen. McCain's views in our paper just as we have in the past."

The New York Times endorsed McCain in the Republican primaries, but he has had a testy relationship with the publication.

In February, McCain vigorously denied and denounced the newspaper's report that suggested he had an improper relationship with a female lobbyist. His campaign referred to the article as a "smear campaign" and "gutter politics" in the midst of the presidential race.

McCain's submission comes after the newspaper ran an op-ed written by Obama last Monday. The Illinois senator wrote that as president he would send at least two more combat brigades — about 7,000 troops — to Afghanistan as part of his plan to pull combat troops out of Iraq and focus on al-Qaida in Afghanistan.

The newspaper said it has published at least seven of McCain's op-ed pieces since 1996. "We take his views very seriously," the statement said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080721...H2axWTCthqs0NUE


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Old Post Jul-22-2008 01:34  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

Yes, absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Shipley used to work under Clinton. Or that it's ok for Obama to be obtuse about his Iraqi withdrawal but McCain must be rigid on his?

Obama should at least talk to the generals on the ground before giving his 16 month pull-out speech.
Sounds like Obama's being lead by the nose by his own grassroots...


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Old Post Jul-22-2008 02:14  Canada
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Yes, absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Shipley used to work under Clinton. Or that it's ok for Obama to be obtuse about his Iraqi withdrawal but McCain must be rigid on his?

Obama should at least talk to the generals on the ground before giving his 16 month pull-out speech.
Sounds like Obama's being lead by the nose by his own grassroots...


Why do think he's over there now? Not only that, but the Iraqi government indirectly stated support FOR OBAMA'S IRAQ POLICY. I still can't believe you're still using that line..

Obama was rigid on his policy. Not only that, but made a 45 minute speech on foreign policy the next day! Here watch...



Where's McCain's foreign policy speech? All I ever hear is, "The surge the surge the surge." The surge worked, GREAT. Now it's time to declare victory, and get the f**k out!


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Old Post Jul-22-2008 02:32  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton


Where's McCain's foreign policy speech? All I ever hear is, "The surge the surge the surge." The surge worked, GREAT. Now it's time to declare victory, and get the f**k out!


The surge didn't even work though. It didn't accomplish anything it was designed to do. (i.e. political stability, space for reconciliation and reform, decline in Iraqi-on-Iraqi violence). Two thirds of the country isn't even participating in the political process right now!


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Old Post Jul-22-2008 03:32  United Nations
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
The surge didn't even work though. It didn't accomplish anything it was designed to do. (i.e. political stability, space for reconciliation and reform, decline in Iraqi-on-Iraqi violence). Two thirds of the country isn't even participating in the political process right now!


You know something I don't!


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Old Post Jul-22-2008 03:40  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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hardcore trancer
Mystic Mind



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
The surge didn't even work though.



It is true and I find it funny how the media is trying shove that down peoples throats.The violence could rise up again.Iraq is like a ticking time bomb and there is always the chance of more violence. the "Surge" was just another Bush's bullshit to the world.

Sure the violence is down for NOW but that doesnt mean things will stay that way.


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Old Post Jul-22-2008 03:53 
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Groundhog Boy
Stupidity Offends Me



Registered: May 2005
Location: New York, NY

Here's the rejected Op-Ed, completely void of any plan or goals
quote:
Here is the op-ed piece written by Sen. John McCain that the New York Times declined to run. The piece was released to CNN by the McCain campaign:

In January 2007, when General David Petraeus took command in Iraq, he called the situation "hard" but not "hopeless." Today, 18 months later, violence has fallen by up to 80% to the lowest levels in four years, and Sunni and Shiite terrorists are reeling from a string of defeats. The situation now is full of hope, but considerable hard work remains to consolidate our fragile gains.

Progress has been due primarily to an increase in the number of troops and a change in their strategy. I was an early advocate of the surge at a time when it had few supporters in Washington. Senator Barack Obama was an equally vocal opponent. "I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there," he said on January 10, 2007. "In fact, I think it will do the reverse."

Now Senator Obama has been forced to acknowledge that "our troops have performed brilliantly in lowering the level of violence." But he still denies that any political progress has resulted.

Perhaps he is unaware that the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad has recently certified that, as one news article put it, "Iraq has met all but three of 18 original benchmarks set by Congress last year to measure security, political and economic progress." Even more heartening has been progress that's not measured by the benchmarks. More than 90,000 Iraqis, many of them Sunnis who once fought against the government, have signed up as Sons of Iraq to fight against the terrorists. Nor do they measure Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki's new-found willingness to crack down on Shiite extremists in Basra and Sadr City?actions that have done much to dispel suspicions of sectarianism.

The success of the surge has not changed Senator Obama's determination to pull out all of our combat troops. All that has changed is his rationale. In a New York Times op-ed and a speech this week, he offered his "plan for Iraq" in advance of his first "fact finding" trip to that country in more than three years. It consisted of the same old proposal to pull all of our troops out within 16 months. In 2007 he wanted to withdraw because he thought the war was lost. If we had taken his advice, it would have been. Now he wants to withdraw because he thinks Iraqis no longer need our assistance.

To make this point, he mangles the evidence. He makes it sound as if Prime Minister Maliki has endorsed the Obama timetable, when all he has said is that he would like a plan for the eventual withdrawal of U.S. troops at some unspecified point in the future.

Senator Obama is also misleading on the Iraqi military's readiness. The Iraqi Army will be equipped and trained by the middle of next year, but this does not, as Senator Obama suggests, mean that they will then be ready to secure their country without a good deal of help. The Iraqi Air Force, for one, still lags behind, and no modern army can operate without air cover. The Iraqis are also still learning how to conduct planning, logistics, command and control, communications, and other complicated functions needed to support frontline troops.

No one favors a permanent U.S. presence, as Senator Obama charges. A partial withdrawal has already occurred with the departure of five "surge" brigades, and more withdrawals can take place as the security situation improves. As we draw down in Iraq, we can beef up our presence on other battlefields, such as Afghanistan, without fear of leaving a failed state behind. I have said that I expect to welcome home most of our troops from Iraq by the end of my first term in office, in 2013.

But I have also said that any draw-downs must be based on a realistic assessment of conditions on the ground, not on an artificial timetable crafted for domestic political reasons. This is the crux of my disagreement with Senator Obama.

Senator Obama has said that he would consult our commanders on the ground and Iraqi leaders, but he did no such thing before releasing his "plan for Iraq." Perhaps that's because he doesn't want to hear what they have to say. During the course of eight visits to Iraq, I have heard many times from our troops what Major General Jeffrey Hammond, commander of coalition forces in Baghdad, recently said: that leaving based on a timetable would be "very dangerous."

The danger is that extremists supported by Al Qaeda and Iran could stage a comeback, as they have in the past when we've had too few troops in Iraq. Senator Obama seems to have learned nothing from recent history. I find it ironic that he is emulating the worst mistake of the Bush administration by waving the "Mission Accomplished" banner prematurely.

I am also dismayed that he never talks about winning the war?only of ending it. But if we don't win the war, our enemies will. A triumph for the terrorists would be a disaster for us. That is something I will not allow to happen as president. Instead I will continue implementing a proven counterinsurgency strategy not only in Iraq but also in Afghanistan with the goal of creating stable, secure, self-sustaining democratic allies.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07...p.ed/index.html


vs. Obama's from last week
quote:
July 14, 2008
Op-Ed Contributor
My Plan for Iraq
By BARACK OBAMA

CHICAGO — The call by Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki for a timetable for the removal of American troops from Iraq presents an enormous opportunity. We should seize this moment to begin the phased redeployment of combat troops that I have long advocated, and that is needed for long-term success in Iraq and the security interests of the United States.

The differences on Iraq in this campaign are deep. Unlike Senator John McCain, I opposed the war in Iraq before it began, and would end it as president. I believed it was a grave mistake to allow ourselves to be distracted from the fight against Al Qaeda and the Taliban by invading a country that posed no imminent threat and had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. Since then, more than 4,000 Americans have died and we have spent nearly $1 trillion. Our military is overstretched. Nearly every threat we face — from Afghanistan to Al Qaeda to Iran — has grown.

In the 18 months since President Bush announced the surge, our troops have performed heroically in bringing down the level of violence. New tactics have protected the Iraqi population, and the Sunni tribes have rejected Al Qaeda — greatly weakening its effectiveness.

But the same factors that led me to oppose the surge still hold true. The strain on our military has grown, the situation in Afghanistan has deteriorated and we’ve spent nearly $200 billion more in Iraq than we had budgeted. Iraq’s leaders have failed to invest tens of billions of dollars in oil revenues in rebuilding their own country, and they have not reached the political accommodation that was the stated purpose of the surge.

The good news is that Iraq’s leaders want to take responsibility for their country by negotiating a timetable for the removal of American troops. Meanwhile, Lt. Gen. James Dubik, the American officer in charge of training Iraq’s security forces, estimates that the Iraqi Army and police will be ready to assume responsibility for security in 2009.

Only by redeploying our troops can we press the Iraqis to reach comprehensive political accommodation and achieve a successful transition to Iraqis’ taking responsibility for the security and stability of their country. Instead of seizing the moment and encouraging Iraqis to step up, the Bush administration and Senator McCain are refusing to embrace this transition — despite their previous commitments to respect the will of Iraq’s sovereign government. They call any timetable for the removal of American troops “surrender,” even though we would be turning Iraq over to a sovereign Iraqi government.

But this is not a strategy for success — it is a strategy for staying that runs contrary to the will of the Iraqi people, the American people and the security interests of the United States. That is why, on my first day in office, I would give the military a new mission: ending this war.

As I’ve said many times, we must be as careful getting out of Iraq as we were careless getting in. We can safely redeploy our combat brigades at a pace that would remove them in 16 months. That would be the summer of 2010 — two years from now, and more than seven years after the war began. After this redeployment, a residual force in Iraq would perform limited missions: going after any remnants of Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, protecting American service members and, so long as the Iraqis make political progress, training Iraqi security forces. That would not be a precipitous withdrawal.

In carrying out this strategy, we would inevitably need to make tactical adjustments. As I have often said, I would consult with commanders on the ground and the Iraqi government to ensure that our troops were redeployed safely, and our interests protected. We would move them from secure areas first and volatile areas later. We would pursue a diplomatic offensive with every nation in the region on behalf of Iraq’s stability, and commit $2 billion to a new international effort to support Iraq’s refugees.

Ending the war is essential to meeting our broader strategic goals, starting in Afghanistan and Pakistan, where the Taliban is resurgent and Al Qaeda has a safe haven. Iraq is not the central front in the war on terrorism, and it never has been. As Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, recently pointed out, we won’t have sufficient resources to finish the job in Afghanistan until we reduce our commitment to Iraq.

As president, I would pursue a new strategy, and begin by providing at least two additional combat brigades to support our effort in Afghanistan. We need more troops, more helicopters, better intelligence-gathering and more nonmilitary assistance to accomplish the mission there. I would not hold our military, our resources and our foreign policy hostage to a misguided desire to maintain permanent bases in Iraq.

In this campaign, there are honest differences over Iraq, and we should discuss them with the thoroughness they deserve. Unlike Senator McCain, I would make it absolutely clear that we seek no presence in Iraq similar to our permanent bases in South Korea, and would redeploy our troops out of Iraq and focus on the broader security challenges that we face. But for far too long, those responsible for the greatest strategic blunder in the recent history of American foreign policy have ignored useful debate in favor of making false charges about flip-flops and surrender.

It’s not going to work this time. It’s time to end this war.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/opinion/14obama.html


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Old Post Jul-22-2008 04:12  United States
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

quote:
Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
Here's the rejected Op-Ed, completely void of any plan or goals


It's not exactly a secret that he doesn't have any. Just look at the "three brigade" controversy from last week - he wants to send three brigades into Afghanistan, but has no idea where those troops will be coming from.


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Old Post Jul-22-2008 04:15  United Nations
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jerZ07002
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2006
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
Even more heartening has been progress that's not measured by the benchmarks. More than 90,000 Iraqis, many of them Sunnis who once fought against the government, have signed up as Sons of Iraq to fight against the terrorists.



why is the above quote not the reason for the reduction in violence. There is a serious disconnect in this case between effect and cause.

Old Post Jul-22-2008 04:24  United States
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St_Andrew
I <3 NYC



Registered: May 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Obviously a brilliant move by McCain, instead of just rewrite it to get it published, he got a lot more publicity this way!

Old Post Jul-22-2008 20:27  Europe
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