...wow nice spin....

As if this was all Obama's idea

Everyone has said that they'd pull out when they felt Iraq was ready to stand on their own two feet and they are getting there despite putting a deadline on it.

It's a wonder Obama's head doesn't spin off with all his 300 foreign policy advisers...yes, 300.

/ you need that many when you keep kicking them off the bus you see...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r ...wow nice spin.... As if this was all Obama's idea Everyone has said that they'd pull out when they felt Iraq was ready to stand on their own two feet and they are getting there despite putting a deadline on it. It's a wonder Obama's head doesn't spin off with all his 300 foreign policy advisers...yes, 300. / you need that many when you keep kicking them off the bus you see...

LOL, spin..

Obama's idea was to withdraw. Now that the Iraqi government chooses to EXPLICITLY state they want an American withdrawal during Obama's trip, where's the spin?! Now that Iraq says it can stand on its "own two feet", McCain and Bush want NO TIMETABLE. Do you agree with this? They wanted to stay when there was violence, they want to stay when there isn't violence...Spin...LOL...

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r and they are getting there despite putting a deadline on it.

Really? How so?

And honestly, McCain could use a few new "foreign policy advisors" - the one's he has evidently can't even teach the Senator the geography or religious composition of the Middle East.

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Originally posted by Krypton LOL, spin.. Obama's idea was to withdraw. Now that the Iraqi government chooses to EXPLICITLY state they want an American withdrawal during Obama's trip, where's the spin?! Now that Iraq says it can stand on its "own two feet", McCain and Bush want NO TIMETABLE. Do you agree with this? They wanted to stay when there was violence, they want to stay when there isn't violence...Spin...LOL...

Obama's idea to withdraw was a long time ago when he did everything he could to stop the process that has lead to the current success. Now that it's been achieved, he wants to scurry in there and take credit? Please note that if his idea was followed to begin with, he wouldn't be there walking around without kevlar on pimping his withdrawel plan. Don't you see what's going on with the politics? Provincial elections are around the corner in Iraq. Here is some analysis of Maliki's deliberate exploitation of the U.S. election to gain leverage:

quote:

According to senior Iraqi officials, the decision to play U.S. politics emerged last month after Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari’s trip to Washington for meetings with Bush, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Obama and Sen. John McCain, the likely Republican presidential nominee… With the talks [on a long-term security partnership] bogged down, the Iraqis sensed desperation by the Americans to wrap up a deal quickly before the presidential campaign was in full swing. “Let’s squeeze them,” al-Maliki told his advisers, who related the conversation to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue. The squeeze came July 7, when al-Maliki announced in Abu Dhabi that Iraq wanted the base deal to include some kind of timetable for withdrawing U.S. troops. BREAK TRANSCRIPT I don’t mind that he’s using Obama for his own ends; if anything, it increases my confidence in him, that he’s a shrewd operator and not just some stooge we’re propping up. But note this, tucked away towards the bottom of the AP piece: “Military commanders are wondering whether all the political bargaining about withdrawal timetables could create its own unstoppable momentum, leaving Iraqi security forces increasingly in charge when they may not be ready for the task.” Indeed. Occupation is sufficiently unpopular with Iraqis, I’m sure, that if Maliki starts to make a big deal about withdrawal, none of his rivals are going to oppose him on it. It’s politically irresistible but, per Mullen, also quite possibly irresponsible. The question at this point, I guess, is whether Maliki sincerely believes 16 months is enough or whether that’s just a rhetorical bludgeon he’ll lay down once the rest of the security deal hammered out. His problem is, if Iraqis start to get excited about it — notwithstanding the advice of some of their own generals — he’ll be trapped into having to follow through on the timeline lest one of the other Shiite parties coopt the issue and use it to oust him. That’s what’s meant, I take it, by “unstoppable momentum.” Keep an eye on whether and how his statements change after the deal is signed.

So now Obama is over there trying to take credit as though his words and presence has moved the Iraqis. As Joe Lieberman said on television this weekend, if Obama's policy in Iraq had ever seen the light of day, there would be no reason for Obama to go there. We wouldn't be there, and it would be a whole different situation. He brags about how he opposed the mission in Iraq, even when he was an unknown state senator. In the few days that he spent actually working in the US Senate, the guy voted against reinforcement for our troops and supported timetables that would endanger them by laying out for the enemy his surrender strategy. If I were to ask you today exactly what Obama's position on Iraq is, you'd have three or four to choose from. The point being, he wants to be able to claim whatever position works in the moment. Now that we've turned the corner in Iraq, Obama wants us to get out and fast. Let's not forget he wanted us to get out immediately in the darkest days of Iraq. He contributed not a single thing to our success there, which in fact occurred despite his efforts to thwart it and those of his party.

Read another article saying that during his and Maliki's discussion, Maliki spoke about the need for a time frame for withdrawal,

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“but his view is he wants some flexibility in terms of how that’s carried out.”

What the hell was the big to-do this weekend about then? If Maliki’s not pushing a hard-and-fast 16-month timetable, then he’s back at the same vague “time horizons” position he’s been at for the past two weeks.

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Originally posted by The17sss the process that has lead to the current success.

Please, somebody, for the love of God - define this without moving the goalposts.

Conservative columnist George Will:

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By Bush's Own Standard, Surge Has Failed Those who today stridently insist that the surge has succeeded also say they are especially supportive of the president, Petraeus and the military generally. But at the beginning of the surge, both Petraeus and the president defined success in a way that took the achievement of success out of America's hands. The purpose of the surge, they said, is to buy time -- "breathing space," the president says -- for Iraqi political reconciliation. Because progress toward that has been negligible, there is no satisfactory answer to this question: What is the U.S. military mission in Iraq?

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Originally posted by Krypton LOL, spin..

ALL OF IT is spin. all of it. from Democrat to Republican, left to right up and down every which way is spin spin and more spin.

none of the spin will stop until November...then prepare for more spin.

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Originally posted by Q5echo ALL OF IT is spin. all of it. from Democrat to Republican, left to right up and down every which way is spin spin and more spin. none of the spin will stop until November...then prepare for more spin.

That about sums it up... well said.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo ALL OF IT is spin. all of it. from Democrat to Republican, left to right up and down every which way is spin spin and more spin. none of the spin will stop until November...then prepare for more spin.

Your vote is going to be decided by a foreign policy and whomever can say Iraq the most - sad really.

Feel for you guys...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Obama's idea to withdraw was a long time ago when he did everything he could to stop the process that has lead to the current success. Now that it's been achieved, he wants to scurry in there and take credit? Please note that if his idea was followed to begin with, he wouldn't be there walking around without kevlar on pimping his withdrawel plan. Don't you see what's going on with the politics? Provincial elections are around the corner in Iraq. Here is some analysis of Maliki's deliberate exploitation of the U.S. election to gain leverage:

How is Obama taking credit? Obama hasn't made ANY public comments on anything the Iraqi prime minister took the liberty to say. He hasn't taken credit for ANYTHING. Also, you give so much credit to the surge when in reality, the surge wouldn't have done jack sh*t without the Sunni Awakening Councils or the stand down of the Sadr Militia. That still does not bar the fact that the VAST majority of Iraqis want an American withdrawal. I also believe the Iraqi's have every right to tell the Americans what they want. FULL sovereignty. This isn't just about provincial elections. The IRAQI PARLIAMENT also wants an American withdrawal. Who do they serve? The Iraqi people!

quote:

So now Obama is over there trying to take credit as though his words and presence has moved the Iraqis. As Joe Lieberman said on television this weekend, if Obama's policy in Iraq had ever seen the light of day, there would be no reason for Obama to go there. We wouldn't be there, and it would be a whole different situation. He brags about how he opposed the mission in Iraq, even when he was an unknown state senator. In the few days that he spent actually working in the US Senate, the guy voted against reinforcement for our troops and supported timetables that would endanger them by laying out for the enemy his surrender strategy. If I were to ask you today exactly what Obama's position on Iraq is, you'd have three or four to choose from. The point being, he wants to be able to claim whatever position works in the moment. Now that we've turned the corner in Iraq, Obama wants us to get out and fast. Let's not forget he wanted us to get out immediately in the darkest days of Iraq. He contributed not a single thing to our success there, which in fact occurred despite his efforts to thwart it and those of his party.

Once again, Obama hasn't taken credit for anything. He has conceded the surge helped <-- (key word) bring down the level of violence. But to say the surge itself brought down violence? You're just kidding yourself. If withdrawing from Iraq equals "surrender", then we'll NEVER see the day of victory in Iraq. Victory for Iraq War supporters is STAYING IN IRAQ! And what are Obama's 3 or 4 strategies? Let me help you out. CLICK

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Your vote is going to be decided by a foreign policy and whomever can say Iraq the most

i don't really think so. it seems that way right now because the Messiah is in travel carving himself foriegn policy niche (however fleeting that niche may turn out to be) and revising history as he sees fit. this will pass.

come November Iraq will be even further along in it's goals, make more milestones and prove a lot of people wrong while the media puts it on the back burner.

it will most surely be the economy determining this outcome.