The projected decrease in gas prices from opening up ANWR and offshore drilling is like 4 cents

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis The projected decrease in gas prices from opening up ANWR and offshore drilling is like 4 cents

Not to mention the years it would take to get all the infrastructure to actually drill it set up.

___________________

"I think i'll name my testicles Mysaq. So then I can be like, "wooah woowwho whwowooaaa there Mysaq, it's not a good idea to teabag a tarantula."" - Glade776

I guess he finally got hold of that time machine!

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis The projected decrease in gas prices from opening up ANWR and offshore drilling is like 4 cents

Not according to the GOP!

quote:

Another GOP Oil-Drilling Myth Is Born! By Eric Kleefeld - July 21, 2008, 4:39PM As you know, we've been posting here regularly about the GOP's frequent pushing of the myth that China is drilling for oil off American shores. Well here's another outlandish oil-drilling line: If not for the Dems in Congress, gas would cost two bucks a gallon! Here's what Republican Congresswoman Michele Bachmann of Minnesota had to say in an op-ed for National Review, promoting drilling in ANWR: The fact of the matter is that Congress is standing in the way of $2-a-gallon gas. It is Speaker Pelosi and the House Democrats who are refusing to let commonsense energy legislation come to the floor. That's right: Bachmann says that we can cut the price of gas from over four dollars down to two, a change of more than 50%, by just opening up some new drilling. What wonderful news! The problem, however, is that this just isn't true when you're working on the scale of a vast global marketplace. In the case of ANWR, a Department of Energy study this past May found that drilling there could potentially lower the price of a barrel of oil by a mere 75 cents -- only enough to lower the price of a gallon of gas by about two cents, and it would take until the year 2025. Proposed offshore drilling plans for other areas have yielded similar numbers, too. Oh well. Lowering the price by two dollars, or two cents -- what's the difference? We'll be hearing a lot more of this line over the next few months.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpo..._is_bo.php#more

Link to the Department of Energy report:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/anwr/pdf/sroiaf(2008)03.pdf

___________________

Yep, seen that. The way they can flat out lie to Americans is absolutely astonishing.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

They are right tho that Obama isn't doing anyhting at all to lower oil prices. Like he wants to limit new drilling, tax oil companies etc, all that would actually raise oil prices. But as you all pointed out, those are all very long term aspects...

He would however increase spending and initiatives for new energy, which imo makes a lot more sense even tho it will raise energy prices in the short and mid term. But to be honest I don't know if the majority of the American people would agree with that, so the ad might work?

In all honesty I think high oil prices have been good for the US... Metro usage is at an all-time high, and the demand for electric hybrids has even Ford making plans to release new models. Hell, even Texas is releasing plans for wind farms.

Energy diversification is the only way to lower prices - simply increasing the short-term supply isn't enough to make a marked difference in the context of the global economy.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov In all honesty I think high oil prices have been good for the US... Metro usage is at an all-time high, and the demand for electric hybrids has even Ford making plans to release new models. Hell, even Texas is releasing plans for wind farms. Energy diversification is the only way to lower prices - simply increasing the short-term supply isn't enough to make a marked difference in the context of the global economy.

+1. We can't drill our way to lower gas prices. First off, we'de be releasing even more greenhouse gas into the atmosphere, and secondly, it's a short-term solution. Instead of spending hundreds of billions of dollars building more hydrocarbon infrastructure to get more hydrocarbons, they should be spending that money on building renewable energy infrastructure. The midwest is said to be the Saudi Arabia of wind. We got to get that up and running QUICK!

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov In all honesty I think high oil prices have been good for the US... Metro usage is at an all-time high, and the demand for electric hybrids has even Ford making plans to release new models. Hell, even Texas is releasing plans for wind farms. Energy diversification is the only way to lower prices - simply increasing the short-term supply isn't enough to make a marked difference in the context of the global economy.

Agreed. I'm actually kind of happy oil prices are rising. I think it will open a lot of people's eyes to how impractical urban planning has been in the US, and how dependent it is on motor vehicles.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton +1. We can't drill our way to lower gas prices. First off, we'de be releasing even more greenhouse gas into the atmosphere, and secondly, it's a short-term solution. Instead of spending hundreds of billions of dollars building more hydrocarbon infrastructure to get more hydrocarbons, they should be spending that money on building renewable energy infrastructure. The midwest is said to be the Saudi Arabia of wind. We got to get that up and running QUICK!

We can spend all we want on research, but there's no guarantee's any of it will work to the degree oil does, so why cripple ourselves on oil before that happens? Have you heard about the windfarms in Rock Port, MO in the midwest? Unless you are on top of Mt. Everest, you're going to get sustained winds about 30% of the time at best. The other 70% of the time, you'd have to have another source of energy to power those turbines. There is no storage on the grid, and no way to store that kind of energy; there aren't batteries large enough. So this is the fatal flaw of wind energy. It requires fossil fuel backup of at least 90% of the installed capacity of whatever the windmills are, as confirmed by Britain's EON report. It's even more complicated than that because we can't predict when and how hard the wind will blow, and it causes havoc on a grid, because you can't ramp these sources up. conventional sources, coal, nuke, and gas, take a long time to ramp up and down, so basically they have to be running all the time to cover the intermittency of wind, and the bottom line is wind turbines produce no net CO2 reduction, even though that's basically the only reason they exist... theoretically. To me it's sad that people buy into it, and the people responsible for those kinds of things will never be held accountable... we will only be able to talk about their good intentions. We will never be able to talk about the failed results. Here's a similar analogy. Let's say that the hybrid automobile industry and all the related advocates succeeded in getting just half the people in LA driving them. They all have to plug in somewhere to recharge the batteries. It will cause a blackout or brownout immediately if that were the case. The point is, where does that power come from? Right now there is still a little bit of excess capacity in this country, but it's declining rapidly and wind power and all the other alternative energy isn't really replacing it because it all requires backup.

So, it's just a campaign slogan IMO to say "we can't drill our way to lower prices". We absolutely CAN drill our way to lower prices. If we vastly increase the supply, the price will go down... simple. Why is it a short term solution when we have an incredible amount of untapped energy? So, awesome... the metro systems in cities is at an all time high. Great. In the meantime, our economy is being torn apart because of the high gas prices. When people aren't going anywhere, they aren't spending anything and the economy slows down. Like it or not, oil is the lifeblood of this economy right now.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss So, it's just a campaign slogan IMO to say "we can't drill our way to lower prices". We absolutely CAN drill our way to lower prices. If we vastly increase the supply, the price will go down... simple. Why is it a short term solution when we have an incredible amount of untapped energy? So, awesome... the metro systems in cities is at an all time high. Great. In the meantime, our economy is being torn apart because of the high gas prices. When people aren't going anywhere, they aren't spending anything and the economy slows down. Like it or not, oil is the lifeblood of this economy right now.

You need to do a little more research. We don't have huge untapped oil reserves. Even opening up all of ANWR would barely make a dent in the amount we consume daily.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves

quote:

United States United States proven oil reserves declined to a little less than 21 billion barrels (3.3×109 m3) in 2006 according to the Energy Information Administration[44], a 46% decline from 39 billion barrels (6.2×109 m3) in 1970. U.S. crude production peaked in 1970 at 9.6 million barrels per day (1.53×106 m3/d), and had declined 47% to 5.1 million barrels per day (810×103 m3/d) by 2006. [45] This represents about an 11 year supply of oil reserves at current rates of production. United States crude oil production has been declining since reaching a smaller secondary production peak in 1988 (caused by Alaskan production). Hypothetically, if the United States was able to produce its entire demand of 21 million barrels per day (3.3×106 m3/d) without resorting to foreign imports, existing US reserves would last only three years at the current rate of consumption. With over 2.3 million wells having been drilled in the US since 1949,[46] the likelihood of discovering new large oilfields is extremely slim. U.S. oil reserve numbers are very accurate compared to those of most other countries. Because of declining production and increasing demand, US imports of oil and petroleum products increased by 400% from 3.4 million barrels per day (540×103 m3/d) in 1970 to 13.6 million barrels per day (2.16×106 m3/d) in 2006. Its largest suppliers of petroleum products in 2006 were Canada and Mexico, which supplied 2.3 and 1.7 Mbbl/d (370×103 and 270×103 m3/d), respectively.[47] Imports of oil and products account for nearly half of the US trade deficit. As of 2007, the Energy Information Agency (EIA) of the US Department of Energy projected that in 2007 oil consumption would rise to 20.9 million barrels per day (3.32×106 m3/d), while oil production would fall to 5.1 million barrels per day (810×103 m3/d), meaning that oil consumption would be nearly four times as high as oil production.[48] In April 2008, the United States Geological Survey (USGS) released a report giving a new resource assessment of the Bakken Formation underlying portions of Montana and North Dakota. The USGS believes that with new horizontal drilling technology there is somewhere between 3.0 and 4.5 billion barrels (480×106 and 720×106 m3) of recoverable oil remaining to be discovered in this 200,000 square miles (520,000 km²) formation that was initially discovered in 1951. If accurate, this reassessment would make it the largest continuous oil formation ever discovered in the U.S.[49] However, it would represent only a five to seven month supply of oil for the United States at current (2007) rates of consumption. A May 2008 assessment by the EIA estimated potential cumulative production of the 1002 area of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to be a maximum of 4.3 billion barrels from 2018 to 2030. This estimate is a best case scenario of technically recoverable oil during the area's primary production years if legislation were passed in 2008 to allow drilling.[50]

The solution is painfully clear: we need to begin drastically cutting our dependence on oil. And that is NOT going to happen by attempting to reduce the price of gasoline to the ridiculously low prices we've been used to for years...

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.