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Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada
Vietnam - The Cheaper China



I read this one couple weeks ago, and I really liked it! 58000 Americans died fighting the Vietnamese communist forces, you know!

http://www.thespec.com/Opinions/article/400964

quote:

Meet Vietnam, the cheaper China

For business it's the place to be, but what about the 58,000 who died in the war?


July 11, 2008
Harold Meyerson
The Hamilton Spectator
(Jul 11, 2008)
Doing business in China is beginning to cost real money. Not that Chinese workers are buying second homes or anything like that: Their average wage is still a little short of a dollar an hour. But so many Chinese have now left their villages for the factories that the once bottomless pool of new young workers is beginning to run dry, and the wages of assembly-line employees are rising 10 per cent a year.

Worse yet, new labour laws are making it harder for employers to cheat their workers out of their wages and benefits. Many U.S. businesses that do their manufacturing in China had warned against those laws; the American Chamber of Commerce in Shanghai had flatly opposed them.

But the good old days of Maoist labour discipline, when the government could send tens of millions of skilled workers down to the farms to be toughened up and periodically tortured, are gone. Mao's heirs, though not above a touch of torture here and there just to keep the system humming along, are concerned, as he was not, with achieving social harmony, even if that means compelling employers to sign, and honour, contracts with their employees.

Confronted with such appalling squishiness, what's a good, cost-cutting American business to do? Many are fleeing south of the border -- not the U.S. border (Mexico costs way too much) but China's.

They're bound for Vietnam.

According to a report by Keith Bradsher in the New York Times last month, such multinational companies as Canon (the printer and copier maker) and Hanes (the North Carolina-based underwear empire) are expanding or building factories in Hanoi, where they churn out products for Wal-Mart and other American retailers. Foreign direct investment in Vietnam increased 136 per cent between 2006 and 2007, while it increased just 14 per cent in China.

The reason for the move south is straightforward: Vietnamese factory workers make about a quarter of what their Chinese counterparts earn.

But why Vietnam and not, say, Thailand, where labour is similarly cheap?

Vietnam's edge, it seems, is political. "Communism means more stability," Laurence Shu, the chief financial officer of Shanghai-based Texhong, one of the world's leading manufacturers of cotton fabrics, told Bradsher. This view, Bradsher reports, is common among Asian executives and some American executives, too, though they have the presence of mind never to say so on the record. After all, Vietnam, like China, outlaws independent unions. Absent free speech and free elections, no radical shifts in the government's economic policies are likely to be sprung upon unsuspecting American businesses.

Now, far be it from me to begrudge the Vietnamese their moment in the sun before global capital finds them too costly and moves on to Bangladesh and Somalia. But didn't Americans fight a war to keep Vietnam from going communist? Something like 58,000 American deaths, right?

And now American business actually prefers investing in communist Vietnam over, say, the more or less democratic Philippines? In all likelihood, it would prefer investing in communist Vietnam to investing in a more chaotic, less disciplined democratic Vietnam, if such existed.

Let's imagine, just as an exercise, that we're trying to explain this to those 58,000 Americans and their loved ones. We could argue that by investing in communist countries, we're pushing them toward democracy. But everything we know about China suggests that, in reality, such investments merely make authoritarian regimes stronger. We could argue that what we're really doing is bringing communist nations into the world capitalist system. Then again, the effect of bringing into the global labour pool hundreds of millions of low-wage workers -- people whose wages are held in check by both capital mobility and communist repression -- is to hold down wages in democratic nations with advanced economies and with no national strategy to preserve and expand good jobs at home (as in the United States).

Or we could argue that our onetime opposition to communism was noble and all that but that, unburdened by the illusions of the past, American business, backed by the American government, has realized that the problem with communism wasn't that it was undemocratic but that it was anti-capitalist. And that once communism was integrated into a world capitalist system, its antipathy toward democracy not only wouldn't be a bad thing but would actually be good. That is clearly the political logic that underpins our involvement with China. It's a little dicier to say this about our growing involvement with Vietnam, since all those Americans whose names are on that wall on the Mall probably didn't realize how compatible with global American enterprise Vietnamese communism would turn out to be, or how the cause of democracy would turn out to have been of no real importance at all.

I guess a note from the American establishment to those men and women with their names on the Wall would be in order. Something like: Say, guys -- sorry 'bout that!

Harold Meyerson is editor-at-large of American Prospect and the L.A. Weekly.


___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Old Post Jul-26-2008 01:28  Canada
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

The Vietnam War was a huge miscalculation by the leadership in the 1960's. Iraq follows in it's footsteps. If America would just respect the national sovereignty and self-determination of sovereign states, this world would be a much better place.


___________________

Old Post Jul-26-2008 02:34  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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jerZ07002
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2006
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
The Vietnam War was a huge miscalculation by the leadership in the 1960's. Iraq follows in it's footsteps. If America would just respect the national sovereignty and self-determination of sovereign states, this world would be a much better place.


it's amazing how you can connect any situation with the war in iraq.

Old Post Jul-26-2008 03:12  United States
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

quote:
Originally posted by jerZ07002
it's amazing how you can connect any situation with the war in iraq.


"History repeats itself."


___________________

Old Post Jul-26-2008 03:18  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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jerZ07002
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2006
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
"History repeats itself."



not really - the causes and justifications for the wars are totally different. the situations aren't as similar as you think.

Old Post Jul-26-2008 03:20  United States
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

quote:
Originally posted by jerZ07002
not really - the causes and justifications for the wars are totally different. the situations aren't as similar as you think.


The American leadership is making the same mistake it made in 1965. It has attacked other sovereign nations without just cause. Thus, history has repeated itself.


___________________

Old Post Jul-26-2008 03:34  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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jerZ07002
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2006
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
The American leadership is making the same mistake it made in 1965. It has attacked other sovereign nations without just cause. Thus, history has repeated itself.


do you actually know anything about the vietnam war? being unpopular doesn't mean it was without just cause.

Old Post Jul-26-2008 03:45  United States
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

quote:
Originally posted by jerZ07002
do you actually know anything about the vietnam war? being unpopular doesn't mean it was without just cause.


Attacking my credibility does not help you. I have very valid reasons to believe the Vietnam War was not a just war. First off, the Gulf of Tonkin Incident was COMPLETELY fabricated!!


___________________

Old Post Jul-26-2008 04:32  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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jerZ07002
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2006
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
Attacking my credibility does not help you. I have very valid reasons to believe the Vietnam War was not a just war. First off, the Gulf of Tonkin Incident was COMPLETELY fabricated!!


that wasn't an attack on your credibility (there is no way i could know whether you are credible), it was a question of whether you have knowledge of the facts of the past.

Old Post Jul-27-2008 00:47  United States
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guerra-monstru
Suspended User



Registered: Jan 2008
Location: D.F., Mexico

Lets see the major difference between the two wars. Vietnam no one cared until the draft where "rich" people had to serve. Iraq war is a voluntary army. No draft no similiarity.

I hope Vietnam does get the benefits of american manufacturers.

Old Post Jul-27-2008 01:42 
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Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas

30 years after the fall of Saigon and millions "re-educated" (read tortured and killed and malnurished) we can all lament the plucky dividends of Maoist communism. fukkin great.

Old Post Jul-27-2008 01:45  United States
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Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
"History repeats itself."


only if you let it. say by letting Baghdad fall like Saigon?

history, Krypton. get some.

Old Post Jul-27-2008 01:47  United States
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