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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Read This! Obamanomics Is a Recipe for Recession

As the article states, he'll make you crap rainbows with his speeches but (most of) his policies are going to definitely be his undoing.

As soon as the voters catch on to who's actually going to be paying for all of Obama's nanny state programs, they'll flee faster than one can blink...

quote:

Obamanomics Is a Recipe for Recession
By MICHAEL J. BOSKIN
July 29, 2008
[nowides]

What if I told you that a prominent global political figure in recent months has proposed: abrogating key features of his government's contracts with energy companies; unilaterally renegotiating his country's international economic treaties; dramatically raising marginal tax rates on the "rich" to levels not seen in his country in three decades (which would make them among the highest in the world); and changing his country's social insurance system into explicit welfare by severing the link between taxes and benefits?

The first name that came to mind would probably not be Barack Obama, possibly our nation's next president. Yet despite his obvious general intelligence, and uplifting and motivational eloquence, Sen. Obama reveals this startling economic illiteracy in his policy proposals and economic pronouncements. From the property rights and rule of (contract) law foundations of a successful market economy to the specifics of tax, spending, energy, regulatory and trade policy, if the proposals espoused by candidate Obama ever became law, the American economy would suffer a serious setback.

To be sure, Mr. Obama has been clouding these positions as he heads into the general election and, once elected, presidents sometimes see the world differently than when they are running. Some cite Bill Clinton's move to the economic policy center following his Hillary health-care and 1994 Congressional election debacles as a possible Obama model. But candidate Obama starts much further left on spending, taxes, trade and regulation than candidate Clinton. A move as large as Mr. Clinton's toward the center would still leave Mr. Obama on the economic left.

Also, by 1995 the country had a Republican Congress to limit President Clinton's big government agenda, whereas most political pundits predict strengthened Democratic majorities in both Houses in 2009. Because newly elected presidents usually try to implement the policies they campaigned on, Mr. Obama's proposals are worth exploring in some depth. I'll discuss taxes and trade, although the story on his other proposals is similar.

First, taxes. The table nearby demonstrates what could happen to marginal tax rates in an Obama administration. Mr. Obama would raise the top marginal rates on earnings, dividends and capital gains passed in 2001 and 2003, and phase out itemized deductions for high income taxpayers. He would uncap Social Security taxes, which currently are levied on the first $102,000 of earnings. The result is a remarkable reduction in work incentives for our most economically productive citizens.

The top 35% marginal income tax rate rises to 39.6%; adding the state income tax, the Medicare tax, the effect of the deduction phase-out and Mr. Obama's new Social Security tax (of up to 12.4%) increases the total combined marginal tax rate on additional labor earnings (or small business income) from 44.6% to a whopping 62.8%. People respond to what they get to keep after tax, which the Obama plan reduces from 55.4 cents on the dollar to 37.2 cents -- a reduction of one-third in the after-tax wage!
[Boskin]

Despite the rhetoric, that's not just on "rich" individuals. It's also on a lot of small businesses and two-earner middle-aged middle-class couples in their peak earnings years in high cost-of-living areas. (His large increase in energy taxes, not documented here, would disproportionately harm low-income Americans. And, while he says he will not raise taxes on the middle class, he'll need many more tax hikes to pay for his big increase in spending.)

On dividends the story is about as bad, with rates rising from 50.4% to 65.6%, and after-tax returns falling over 30%. Even a small response of work and investment to these lower returns means such tax rates, sooner or later, would seriously damage the economy.

On economic policy, the president proposes and Congress disposes, so presidents often wind up getting the favorite policy of powerful senators or congressmen. Thus, while Mr. Obama also proposes an alternative minimum tax (AMT) patch, he could instead wind up with the permanent abolition plan for the AMT proposed by the Ways and Means Committee Chairman Charlie Rangel (D., N.Y.) -- a 4.6% additional hike in the marginal rate with no deductibility of state income taxes. Marginal tax rates would then approach 70%, levels not seen since the 1970s and among the highest in the world. The after-tax return to work -- the take-home wage for more time or effort -- would be cut by more than 40%.

Now trade. In the primaries, Sen. Obama was famously protectionist, claiming he would rip up and renegotiate the North American Free Trade Agreement (Nafta). Since its passage (for which former President Bill Clinton ran a brave anchor leg, given opposition to trade liberalization in his party), Nafta has risen to almost mythological proportions as a metaphor for the alleged harm done by trade, globalization and the pace of technological change.

Yet since Nafta was passed (relative to the comparable period before passage), U.S. manufacturing output grew more rapidly and reached an all-time high last year; the average unemployment rate declined as employment grew 24%; real hourly compensation in the business sector grew twice as fast as before; agricultural exports destined for Canada and Mexico have grown substantially and trade among the three nations has tripled; Mexican wages have risen each year since the peso crisis of 1994; and the two binational Nafta environmental institutions have provided nearly $1 billion for 135 environmental infrastructure projects along the U.S.-Mexico border.

In short, it would be hard, on balance, for any objective person to argue that Nafta has injured the U.S. economy, reduced U.S. wages, destroyed American manufacturing, harmed our agriculture, damaged Mexican labor, failed to expand trade, or worsened the border environment. But perhaps I am not objective, since Nafta originated in meetings James Baker and I had early in the Bush 41 administration with Pepe Cordoba, chief of staff to Mexico's President Carlos Salinas.

Mr. Obama has also opposed other important free-trade agreements, including those with Colombia, South Korea and Central America. He has spoken eloquently about America's responsibility to help alleviate global poverty -- even to the point of saying it would help defeat terrorism -- but he has yet to endorse, let alone forcefully advocate, the single most potent policy for doing so: a successful completion of the Doha round of global trade liberalization. Worse yet, he wants to put restrictions into trade treaties that would damage the ability of poor countries to compete. And he seems to see no inconsistency in his desire to improve America's standing in the eyes of the rest of the world and turning his back on more than six decades of bipartisan American presidential leadership on global trade expansion. When trade rules are not being improved, nontariff barriers develop to offset the liberalization from the current rules. So no trade liberalization means creeping protectionism.

History teaches us that high taxes and protectionism are not conducive to a thriving economy, the extreme case being the higher taxes and tariffs that deepened the Great Depression. While such a policy mix would be a real change, as philosophers remind us, change is not always progress.

>>Wall Steet Journal<<


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Old Post Jul-29-2008 21:19  Canada
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

I think the capitalists have run amok. It's time for some moderation. I fully expect Obama to bring that moderation which is needed.


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Old Post Jul-29-2008 21:43  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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Capitalizt
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2005
Location: USA

yep..he will suck, but Mccain is no better. We either spend trillions on a welfare state with Obama or trillions with a warfare state with Mccain.

Tax and spend vs borrow and spend. Both are very bad for the health of the economy.

Old Post Jul-29-2008 21:43  United States
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Clovis
techno jungle shit



Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Los Angeles

Yeah, surprise, we need to TAX people to PAY for things. Something the current administration, nor McCain seem to understand.


Recipe for recession? What exactly have the last 8 years of tax cuts, stimulus packages and completely out of control spending been then?


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quote:
Originally posted by ********
Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

Old Post Jul-29-2008 21:58  France
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The17sss
C.R.E.A.M.



Registered: May 2008
Location: Charlotte, NC

I think reforming all the pork spending is the issue... it's already understood we need taxes to pay for stuff. With an expanding govt. under Obama with more govt. created programs, that equates to more taxes to pay for more stuff.

Edit: where you been lately, Clovis? Haven't seen you on here. Did you need a rest from political talk?

Old Post Jul-29-2008 22:12  United States
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Clovis
techno jungle shit



Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Los Angeles

Just busy with that crazy thing called real life. lol


___________________
quote:
Originally posted by ********
Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

Old Post Jul-29-2008 22:22  France
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

I know of no instances where a government can go to war AND lower taxes. You can't have it both ways!


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Old Post Jul-29-2008 23:19  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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Groundhog Boy
Stupidity Offends Me



Registered: May 2005
Location: New York, NY

quote:
Originally posted by The17sss
I think reforming all the pork spending is the issue... it's already understood we need taxes to pay for stuff. With an expanding govt. under Obama with more govt. created programs, that equates to more taxes to pay for more stuff.

Edit: where you been lately, Clovis? Haven't seen you on here. Did you need a rest from political talk?

The projected $490 BILLION deficit for the upcoming year isn't pork barrel spending, kids.

The stimulus package was a big chunk of it (roughly 1/2), but even without it, "pork" is 10%, tops, of the remaining amount - of just the deficit.

When Dubya was handed the White House keys, we were running a surplus even though the pork was extensive there, too.


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Old Post Jul-30-2008 00:10  United States
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The17sss
C.R.E.A.M.



Registered: May 2008
Location: Charlotte, NC

quote:
Originally posted by Clovis
Just busy with that crazy thing called real life. lol


I've been known to get caught up in that from time to time as well

Old Post Jul-30-2008 00:17  United States
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occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

Heh a recipe for recession? You mean like what we're going through now? Yes there's no conjecture on the EXACT recipe for that ... it's been proven ... so it boggles the mind that you would be an advocate for the same failed strategy. The fact of the matter is that during the Bush years the incomes of the bottom 99% rose by an average of 1% a year whereas the top 1% increased by 11% a year. Do you thing this is a sign of healthy, sustainable growth? Bear in mind that consumer spending is comprised of 70% GDP and that the vast majority of consumer spending DOES NOT come from that 1% of the population. Bear in mind that inflationary pressures are most prevalent in inelastic goods such as food, fuel, and energy ... goods that the bottom 99% are going to be squeezed in which will reduce consumption in every other area of the economy.

You really think that the status quo of making the Bush tax cuts permanent, the capital gains tax permanent, and the continuation of the rest of this administration's fiscally retarded policies that are bankrupting the country are not only going to reverse the chaos it spawned, but make things better? Huh? Blah blah Obama spending this ... spending that ... the Bush administration has been the most prolific spender in United States HISTORY. To hear you "fiscal conservatives" start harping about that now is well ... hypocritical to put it mildly ... you're fucking con-men to put it not so mildly. What I want to know is, are there THAT many people on tranceaddict that make more than $250,000 a year?? Because unless I'm mistaken that's the only group that will see any tax increase under Obama's plan.


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Retro ...

Last edited by occrider on Jul-30-2008 at 04:53

Old Post Jul-30-2008 04:47  United States
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Kapedano
Forza Inter!



Registered: Apr 2005
Location: Virginia Beach

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
I think the capitalists have run amok. It's time for some moderation. I fully expect Obama to bring that moderation which is needed.


Moderation by being the most liberal senator on the current senate? I am no John McCain fan, but I think he has a proven record of being more of crossing the party line.

Old Post Jul-30-2008 05:00  Albania
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occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

quote:
Originally posted by Kapedano
Moderation by being the most liberal senator on the current senate? I am no John McCain fan, but I think he has a proven record of being more of crossing the party line.


From an economic standpoint the only stand McCain has been attractive on is his position of free trade. Obama consistently mouths off about protectionist policies, oil company windfall taxes, etc., that piss me off to no end. That being said, McCain has spouted off his own nonsense particularly when it comes to that retarded gas tax "holiday", his whole offshore drilling scheme to save the day, et al. It's just as populist as Obama's retarded appeals and possibly more so because they are so much the more STUPID when rational minds actually consider the implications.

What draws me about Obama is that he his economic team is comprised of some extremely smart advisers. He's attracted Warren Buffet, Robert Rubin, however, more importantly he's attracted Volker (who else is better during this time of scareflation???) and former bush administration officials such as Paul O'Neill and William Donaldson. Has McCain been "crossing the party line" in this respect?


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Retro ...

Last edited by occrider on Jul-30-2008 at 05:34

Old Post Jul-30-2008 05:14  United States
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