The right wing has turned "liberal" into a dirty word, and it's really sad. They make it seem as if there is something morally wrong with being a liberal. That to be a liberal means you're evil or...I'll let JFK tell it best...

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What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then ... we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal." [September 14, 1960]

If the GOP tells you, Democrats are soft on crime, terrorism, or the "tax n spend party", don't believe a word of it.

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Originally posted by Krypton The right wing has turned "liberal" into a dirty word, and it's really sad. They make it seem as if there is something morally wrong with being a liberal. That to be a liberal means you're evil or...I'll let JFK tell it best... If the GOP tells you, Democrats are soft on crime, terrorism, or the "tax n spend party", don't believe a word of it.

"Liberal" is scary to the old world beliefs, the reptile base human mind of 500 million years ago that persists in every one of our subconscious processes today.

Why?

Because "Liberal"/"Progressive"/whatever is the new religion. It's our species finally becoming self-aware of the higher levels of its consciousness and working to function more efficiently and in greater harmory.

Naturally the base elements of our evolution, the violence and sex and simple answers to complex questions, would fight tooth and nail to preserve its own state of ignorant stasis and contention.

The left turned it into a dirty word as well...

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Originally posted by George Smiley The left turned it into a dirty word as well...

Funny, because American left, and British left are almost exact opposites, am I wrong?

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Originally posted by DJ Shibby "Liberal" is scary to the old world beliefs, the reptile base human mind of 500 million years ago that persists in every one of our subconscious processes today. Why? Because "Liberal"/"Progressive"/whatever is the new religion. It's our species finally becoming self-aware of the higher levels of its consciousness and working to function more efficiently and in greater harmory. Naturally the base elements of our evolution, the violence and sex and simple answers to complex questions, would fight tooth and nail to preserve its own state of ignorant stasis and contention.

that shit is so whack!

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"No offense, but you're stupid"

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Originally posted by Krypton Funny, because American left, and British left are almost exact opposites, am I wrong?

No, but Labour in Britain has increasingly adopted more right wing or "Third Way" policies, especially since Blair won his landslides. His neoconservative views on Iraq really killed a lot of his support, but he had more in common with Clinton, politically speaking, than he did with Bush. It always fascinated me that they had the relationship that they did. Reagan and Thatcher got on famously but they were both neocon crackpots.

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"No offense, but you're stupid"

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Originally posted by Krypton Funny, because American left, and British left are almost exact opposites, am I wrong?

If by "American left" you mean Democrats then yes, they are miles apart (economically they would argue there's no difference between Democrats and Republicans and the dividing line is only political)

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Originally posted by George Smiley If by "American left" you mean Democrats then yes, they are miles apart (economically they would argue there's no difference between Democrats and Republicans and the dividing line is only political)

but Labour still have gone the "third way" by meshing the free market and socialist policies, don't you agree? Labour have more in common with the Democrats I'd say, definitely on "domestic" or social issues anyway.

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"No offense, but you're stupid"

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Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 No, but Labour in Britain has increasingly adopted more right wing or "Third Way" policies, especially since Blair won his landslides. His neoconservative views on Iraq really killed a lot of his support, but he had more in common with Clinton, politically speaking, than he did with Bush. It always fascinated me that they had the relationship that they did. Reagan and Thatcher got on famously but they were both neocon crackpots.

I think it's a bit harsh to label Blair as "neocon", indeed, I think the term neocon is wearing a bit thin now as it's used by those on the left to describe anything to the right of them, and looses its true meaning. The problem with UK and the US is that in terms of foreign policy, we don't seem to have much choice but to follow America's lead. Blair didn't feel comfortable with the effect the sanctions were having on Iraqis and was instrumental in convincing America to go before the UN (which France buggered up).

His domestic policies, altho to the right of the traditional Labour support, were extremely to the left of the exiting Conservatives, for example, the minimum wage and signing up to the EU's social policies.

However, in this case, when I refer to the "left" in the UK, I'm not talking about the current government (which will always be forced to the centre in order to capture the most votes) but the traditional Labour values supporters (of which I count myself as one) and anything to the left of them (all the way to anarchists, altho they can by and large be ignored as irrelevant!)

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Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 but Labour still have gone the "third way" by meshing the free market and socialist policies, don't you agree? Labour have more in common with the Democrats I'd say, definitely on "domestic" or social issues anyway.

Yea I would agree, but as I said above, the Labour government isn't what I was referring to by "the left"

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Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 that shit is so whack!

o.O