I don't really know how to express my feelings without having some of the rabbid monkeys of these here forums jump out but I need to.

As a Jew, I have this "invisible" tie to my people and feel for my people's struggle throughout the years. I have personally felt antisemitism on my own skin in many different parts of the world. As a kid it was hard to understand. As an adult, it's even harder.

I cannot possibly explain the pain and hurt I feel for those who perished in any human conflict. Just when it's hard to feel pain for someone one considers your "mortal enemy" or lives half a world away.

But... I stopped to think why are people such ANIMALS AND BEASTS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE CONFLICT? WHY ARE WE SUCH UGLY F*CKS TO EACH OTHER?

Why can't we share this common planet called Earth and not have to behead, bomb, occupy, torture, kill, opress, enslave, rob, humiliate, rape, intimidate, or hate? I know it's a hippy vision but I just DON'T UNDERSTAND! Why is one people's "invisible diety" is more significant than other people's "invisible diety (or group thereof)"? Why is it a cause to proclaim one an enemy for eternity?

I'm trying to gather my thoughts, so forgive my rant. I have 2 kids, a 7 year old boy and 16 month old girl. One cannot possibly explain the feeling of having a little human being in your life until that moment comes. We all think so but wait until it happens. ON shittiest days in crappiest conditions that's what keeps me going - just being able to hug my kids and know they are well.

As a PARENT, I have this affinity with any parent in the world and I cannot imagine how I could do anything in this world to hurt another person's child. I would sooner kill myself than have to kill another human being, let alone a child.

As a Jew, I understand Israel's desire for security and right to exist. I don't understand the people's need to have a place they call "country" and I don't understand people's need to impose their religious views on others - which makes it very hard for me to feel sorry for those that use religion as excuse to do all the wonderful things we humans do to each other.

At the same time, I DON'T UNDERSTAND how can Israel even imagine to get support for the conflict they unleashed. I know that purpose of the warfare is to force your enemy to consider the costs and refrain from using force in the future. All this "if you want peace prepare for war" mumbo jumbo. I also understand that one nation cannot stand idly by, while being bombed by another.

I JUST CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHY the price of peace is so HIGH?

Just saw a picture of a little baby covered in blood being carried by (what I presume) a palestinian paramedic and I felt a sharp pain inside of me that was like a knife wound. I didn't look and think "oh wow, it's a palestinian. or this is a future terrorist." No. I saw a being too young to understand the pain and horror. I saw a life forever scarred. I saw a misery of parents that must go through this. This picture drew something in my mind that no article could. there were no words. just sheer heart-felt pain inside of me that brought tears to my eyes.

If what that fairy-tale that's believed on both sides - bible, torah, quar'an is to be believed - I want our long-lost brothers to one day find that link that once united us and stop MURDERING EACH OTHER.

This is insane. I'm not sure what to think anymore. I don't know what to think, really. I know I don't support Israel in its cause this time. That's my confession.

I don't speak for all Jews but as one of the Jews I want to say "I'm NOT OK WITH THIS"

sorry if it's emo or disorganized and rant and whatnot.

This is the pic in question (warning, not for faint of heart):
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multim...x43_464431a.jpg

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quote:

No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don’t want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life’s change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.

--Steve Jobs (1955 - 2011)

It is good to know that there are many jews out there who are against the Israeli unjustified actions in Gaza and it seems like more jews are coming out and expressin their feelings about it.

Israel on the other hand doesnt give a shit about what anyone including jews think of what they are doing since they know that they are above the law and more less unstoppable.

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quote:

Originally posted by emc^2 As a kid it was hard to understand. As an adult, it's even harder.

As someone with both Jewish and Arab blood, that's not just hard to understand, but it's just downright absurd (Yup, I've got an Arab great grandmother and a Jew great grandfather ). That's one of the reasons why I'm wary of all forms of collectivism: once there's "us", the insiders, "they" appear; from that appearance to a possible dehumanisation of an entire group of outsiders, it's just a slippery slope. Seeing that baby hurts me just as much, although I come from a completely different background.

Some of the people I love the most belong to minorities (I think you all know that), and I often hear all sorts of ridiculous stories from them. My fiancée's uncle, for example, lost an arm back in WWII because Brazilians were told the Japanese were the enemy. He never fought in the war. He was waiting for a train in a small city in São Paulo and someone pushed him unto the rails. All that because this highly dangerous skinny farmer was seen as a potential enemy. Not unlike the kid in that picture, he had to pay a high price for a worthless social construct. Hell, I had to protect my fiancée - an intimidating 5 feet tall girl - from a home-made explosive thrown at her during a football match between Brazil and Japan. A fucking football match that was being played in another continent! We were on our way to a bus station in São Paulo and we didn't even know the guy. He could well be my cousin, yet he attacked someone I love and that is irrelevant to his existence. Why did he attack her? Because she was "the other"!?

Unfortunately, that's not just something about Arab and Jews. That's bound to happen everywhere, and it's one of the most despicable behaviours exhibited by humans everywhere: The attack on the others, be they innocent or not.



edit: Where did you get that picture from? I'm browsing through all of The Times' photo galleries and can't find anything related to it.

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Last edited by Lira on Jan-15-2009 at 04:54

^^^^
there are 12,000,000 ethnically arab brazillians! thats fucked-i just found this out. I thought by friend who was of Lebanese descent was a rare case but i guess not.

Lira you should volunteer yourself to get in the line of crossfire(like city of god ) and hope things go for the best

I dont really think its strictly an Arab-Jew conflict, more of a Muslim-Jew conflict IMO. I am just thinking of the lebanese civil conflict where the IDF(IOF) worked with the maronites.

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer It is good to know that there are many jews out there who are against the Israeli unjustified actions in Gaza and it seems like more jews are coming out and expressin their feelings about it. Israel on the other hand doesnt give a shit about what anyone including jews think of what they are doing since they know that they are above the law and more less unstoppable.

I think once the world stops worrying so much about it's "identity" we'd all be better people. this prejudice - I'm black, you're white, I'm muslim, you're a jew or christian, or I'm rich, you're poor - it's all just barriers we build around one another.

Adults are the ones responsible for instilling fear and hatred into kids - based on archaic fears, foolish convictions, idiotic notions, racism, etc. I frequently pass by playground and see how kids of all backgrounds often play - black, white, asian, mexican, etc - not one of them calls one another name based on race or appearance. They just get mostly seem to get along.

I think it is adults that instill all these negative things that live within us for life. I remember being called "kike" by my classmates - 7 or 8 years old. I bet they did not come up with this word nor did they even understand what it meant or how it felt to hear that.

This is something their parents taught them and it sunk in.

In these wars people are just ensuring that all these petty differences between us humans continue for eternity and it is rediculous. I understand how Israelis grow up hating Arabs and vice-versa. Somewhere along the line it HAS TO STOP. This is fucked.

That land is holly to many faiths and has to be respected by all. Why not share it? Why not love it and live in harmony, not destroy it?

Why are Muslims so inclined on converting everyone to Islam by force or otherwise? Why are Evangelicals are just as insane only using less destructive methods? Why should we be our own natural enemy and population-control mechanism? What makes us Jews "chosen people" and chosen for what? by whom? Why can't Brazillians be chosen people? Their women are gorgeous, have nice bodies, they win World Cup champioship, live in beautiful climate, have access to some of the best yeyo, tan well? I think the facts speak for themself

I hope that one day there's a cohesive proof of whether there is or there is not God(s), so that this debate can be finally end and we can start acting like humans, not animals.

Fucked up world we're living in.... hope we see some positive changes in our lifetime. And Muslim Extremists - just stop being dickwads. Join 21st century, get an iPod, get internet, surf some web, get some pr0nz, go do some glowsticking and roll your balls off - who knows, you might wanna get a job, get your own place, move out of your mom's cave, become educated, become next famous scholar or scientist?

Put that energy to good use, that's all I'm saying. And my Orthodox bretheren should do the same.

I have a dream that one day a Jew and Arab can chill together in harmony and share a bong hit or two.

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Last edited by aNYthing on Jan-15-2009 at 18:02

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Damerchi ^^^^ there are 12,000,000 ethnically arab brazillians! thats fucked-i just found this out. I thought by friend who was of Lebanese descent was a rare case but i guess not.

Nah, it's not rare at all. Arab food, actually, such as sfiha, kibbe, and khubz, is so popular, most people probably don't even know they're "foreign". As a matter of fact, I was shocked to find out a couple of years ago that couscous was originally from Maghreb and not from Northeastern Brazil!

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Damerchi Lira you should volunteer yourself to get in the line of crossfire(like city of god ) and hope things go for the best

And fight for whom?! I'd want to protect both sides

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quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer It is good to know that there are many jews out there who are against the Israeli unjustified actions in Gaza and it seems like more jews are coming out and expressin their feelings about it. Israel on the other hand doesnt give a shit about what anyone including jews think of what they are doing since they know that they are above the law and more less unstoppable.

now we wait for some criticism by muslims (who live in the middle east) of anything relating to islam or the muslim identity. i'm not holding my breath.

I knew of a muslim local family that consisted of man wife and 4 children.The wife was a very outgoing person and got involved in many local projects and generally was a pillar of the community.The eldest daughter was 16 and fully westernised.The other children were also westernised , and you never saw anyone in the family bar the father in traditional musilm garb.
Out of the blue the neighbourhood was woken as the house was fully ablaze.All the family died execpt the 4th child who was in hospital.
Turns out that the father had murdered them all and set the house ablaze after months of taunts by his peers and friends about his wife having more power than him and his children belonging to us , the british public.
But surely his belief must be that to cause harm , especailly to his family would be to rot in hell?

No , it seems peer pressure was at fault here.

So religon has a major point in starting these conflicts , their beliefs soon dont matter.

I see it more as a pub brawl , when you lob that chair at the guy you wanna hit , you dont care about who it hits en route or after.

As for Hamas , you cant fire into isreal and let your glorious leader (who is hundreds of miles away in hiding)say that retaliation is wrong.

And for isreal , just watch were your firing.

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