I really suck at making my tracks flow - in particular the transitions between breakdowns, different melodies, build ups etc.

How do you guys work on them?

1) Do you first create the full basic arrangement, then work on them, or
do you work on the transitions as you go?

2) What makes a track flow effortlessly?

3) What are the basic elements? (delays, fx, sweeps, etc)

4) how do you layer certain transitions (3 or 4 different elements - each fading in out etc..)

These are all questions that I hope you can answer - as my tracks always sound so flat and rigid with the arrangements.

Thanks guys.....

TMP

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arrangment is hardest part by far! practice practice practice

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https://soundcloud.com/ghostea stuff

Thanks Ninja - but I was hoping for a bit more detail than that

I do practice practice practice - but just seem to have hit a brick wall - thats why Im asking for help from the experts!

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the transitions are some of the last things i do in the before looking closer on levels, eq and compression. sometimes it can just be muting the kick and a reversed crashride pluss a sweep with delay and sidechain. other times it can be a change in the baseline and/or melody in the last bar of a part then change it totaly. other times i render the last bar in a part then inserts it into a sampler adding loads of efex and mute all the other channels. or muting all the drums adding a breakbeat or something. the trick is to not do it too often and also have two or three variations of these transitions (one with mutes, one adding efex/drums, and one just a change in everything). another thing is to have an actual new part worth a real transition to (sorry bad english), if u have this great transition but the track just goes back to what it was is pretty pointless imo. this is probably one of my strongest sides when it comes to producing so i hope i can help.

I draw out a map of where the song is going to go, from start to finish - that gives me a guide for where energy will be increasing or decreasing. It also gives me a guide for filter/volume automation, since these devices are used to help song flow.

But beyond these "large scale" flow devices, all the individual touches/ fills/ effects/ sound dropouts and such I leave until right at the end. The song's overall structure is in place, then I have a fun session working on all the transitions, small and large. I go through each instrument/group of instruments in turn, looking for places they can drop in or out, have filter or volume movements. (for example, going through the song listening to just the main hihat, seeing how that can effectively contribute to the desired flow). Trance needs a lot of variation, otherwise it gets boring very quickly.

In terms of creative tools for fills, Vengeance FX 1 and 2 provide a lot of sounds specifically designed for flow. The VEC sample sets also have some FX included.

Beyond that, keep listening to your favourite tunes and writing down everything you're hearing about the way the producers have created their transitions - what each instrument is doing, when parts drop in or out, the filter and volume automation, sound effects used and so on.

Reversed Cymbal with 4 last kickdrums removed.. for lazy people

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http://soundcloud.com/subtara

just throw a new lead in there and say fuck it.

too much trickery these days trying to make things "flow"

nothing makes your head go "WTF" when something totally new (but appropriate) slams in and you fucking start rockin out



i am serious.

I'm not really sure how one could write a guide about transitions - they're always track-dependent for me...

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Latest releases:
Endless Cycles [Capital Heaven]
The Charlatan [Morphosis]

James Holden says drop the kick a few notes.

Transitions at times differentiate one producer's sound from another. Some producers just go cut and dry or with very little attention towards transition, which works with music that has a lot space. While others fiddle with fx and get the next shoe to fit. It all depends on the elements of the track really, there is no guide, transitions are a good way to differentiate your sound though, so it's best that there is no guide and you create your own ways to transition.

quote:

Originally posted by derail I draw out a map of where the song is going to go, from start to finish - that gives me a guide for where energy will be increasing or decreasing. It also gives me a guide for filter/volume automation, since these devices are used to help song flow. But beyond these "large scale" flow devices, all the individual touches/ fills/ effects/ sound dropouts and such I leave until right at the end. The song's overall structure is in place, then I have a fun session working on all the transitions, small and large. I go through each instrument/group of instruments in turn, looking for places they can drop in or out, have filter or volume movements. (for example, going through the song listening to just the main hihat, seeing how that can effectively contribute to the desired flow). Trance needs a lot of variation, otherwise it gets boring very quickly. In terms of creative tools for fills, Vengeance FX 1 and 2 provide a lot of sounds specifically designed for flow. The VEC sample sets also have some FX included. Beyond that, keep listening to your favourite tunes and writing down everything you're hearing about the way the producers have created their transitions - what each instrument is doing, when parts drop in or out, the filter and volume automation, sound effects used and so on.

Can you explain what you mean by drawing out a map, is it you go 30 sec's i'll addd some hats etc till you get your full song or is it slightly different or am i just missing the whole point.

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Originally posted by Waza Can you explain what you mean by drawing out a map, is it you go 30 sec's i'll addd some hats etc till you get your full song or is it slightly different or am i just missing the whole point.

+1 An explanation of you you draw the map would be useful.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN +1 An explanation of you you draw the map would be useful.

It's something I started doing after hearing that BT and PVD approached their songs in this way. After working out the main melody/ progression, I visualize how I want the track to flow. 30 second chunks are a really good method for establishing the flow (at 140bpm they get down to more like 28-29 seconds, but it's easier to stay with 30 second chunks).

Then I just work out what feels right, in terms of the length of the intro section, whether there'll be a breakdown (or two), where they'll be, how long of an outro there'll be. After that I'll have an overall energy map, showing in 30 second chunks where energy is building up or down. In Cubase I then set up a marker track and write all the sections into it, note where the bass comes in, where the breakdowns are, that sort of thing. Then I use that to build the song structure.

In terms of the little things, just keep listening to your favourite songs, and try out some of the things you hear in them - dropping out kicks, hihats, basses, filtering things, and so on.