quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Someone please tell me - why should any government give funding to an organization that supports Hamas AND Hezbollah, promotes anti-Semitism, and calls immigration officials horrible (uncalled for) names? These people piss me off. Why did they come to Canada if they hate so much the things that make Canada the country that it is. Canada always supported Israel, and will continue to support Israel. These Arab radical sympathizers need to get that straight. Or move back to their prosperous former countries if its so horrible over here! Immigrants do need to have access to proper facilities to teach English as a second language, but not when the people who run these places are crazy radical sympathizers who despise Canadian system for supporting Israel! Only God knows what they might be teaching people there. Smart thing to do is for the organization to fire the idiots and get real with the times and the system. http://www.torontosun.com/news/cana...986226-sun.html

that statement was very american of you.

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 that statement was very american of you.

Hahahah! I have been changing a bit lately, I guess. :

I always considered myself liberal in values, with slight leaning towards conservative in political views. I guess it was only a matter of time before specific certain political developments have changed me.

With regards to the article - I was an immigrant myself, in case someone thinks I am being racist or stereotypical. I just think that immigrating to this great country means that you have to change yourself, as it is a second chance given to build a good life. That means embracing the values and beliefs of this system, to achieve the same level of success and happiness as everyone else. Dwelling on old system is only extending a miserable existence from which those people were escaping. I think pride and ignorance is at fault here.

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quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Hahahah! I have been changing a bit lately, I guess. : I always considered myself liberal in values, with slight leaning towards conservative in political views. I guess it was only a matter of time before specific certain political developments have changed me. With regards to the article - I was an immigrant myself, in case someone thinks I am being racist or stereotypical. I just think that immigrating to this great country means that you have to change yourself, as it is a second chance given to build a good life. That means embracing the values and beliefs of this system, to achieve the same level of success and happiness as everyone else. Dwelling on old system is only extending a miserable existence from which those people were escaping. I think pride and ignorance is at fault here.

This is an issue the US has been dealing with on a large scale for more than a century, and one in which western Europe is really struggling today. I see the relevant questions being: to what extent is it ok for immigrants to retain their culture? to what extent should immigrants embrace the culture of their new land? to what extent should people be expected to modify behavior to accomodate immigrant populations?

I believe it is perfectly fine for immigrants to retain most aspects of their culture (and even try to influence changes in the culture of their new land), but they must also fully embrace their new culture. Additionally, I think it is wrong for immigrants to expect the people of their new country to modify their behaviors to accomodate the immigrant populations. Being sensitive to the immigrant culture is fine, expecting behavioral changes is not fine. An example that really bugs me is when muslims in france (or england) demanding that school rules be changed to allow muslim women to wear their head scarfs. In my view, immigrants have to weigh these options prior to moving to a different country. After all, something attracted them to their new country!

In my view, Chinese (and other east asian countries, i.e., Japan, Korea, Taiwan) and African immigrants display the best qualities of immigrant populations. They don't expect people to change for them. They embrace the new culture (maybe not as openly as some would wish, but all the chinese immigrants I know change their names to english names so it is easy for us to communicate with them). Most importantly (for me), it seems most members of those immigrant groups truly want to be in their new countries. Unfortunately, the way I view the things, it appears to a large extent, arab muslims make for a terrible immigrant population (which isn't to say that arab muslims are bad people - because i don't believe that to be the case). I know this is going to draw some critism, but, to a certain degree, they don't fully embrace our culture, they expect us to modify our behaviors for them, and I'm not convinced they really want to be here. For me, those are some shitty qualities for an immigrant population.

they know what they're doing... using our own flexability, laws, and political correctness against us to get what they want. I read a story last week about how in Minnesota they are starting to demand getting loans for houses based on sharia finance law. They'll scream racism or "we're offended" like little bitches as always because here, the squeeky wheel gets the grease. Piece by piece, American culture will be too murky to recognize anymore because we allow others from other cultures to define it. It's fucking sad.

Imagine thousands of Americans/Canadians moving to Saudi Arabia and demanding a Catholic church be put up, or demanding that their kids should be allowed to go to school without head scarfs, or that you should have the right to marry someone of the same sex.

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Originally posted by The17sss they know what they're doing... using our own flexability, laws, and political correctness against us to get what they want. I read a story last week about how in Minnesota they are starting to demand getting loans for houses based on sharia finance law. They'll scream racism or "we're offended" like little bitches as always because here, the squeeky wheel gets the grease. Piece by piece, American culture will be too murky to recognize anymore because we allow others from other cultures to define it. It's fucking sad. Imagine thousands of Americans/Canadians moving to Saudi Arabia and demanding a Catholic church be put up, or demanding that their kids should be allowed to go to school without head scarfs, or that you should have the right to marry someone of the same sex.

Actually, Saudi arabia has enclosed towns set up for families of western oil workers so westerners (i) can continue to live by their own cultural norms, (ii) can live in safety, and (iii) don't attempt to demand cultural accomodation by saudis that could change the muslim culture. Imagine if we could set up enclosed towns specifically for muslims within the US! While the circumstances are different, it's a concept no muslim immigrant would tolerate (i don't believe most americans would tolerate it either). Just goes to show which culture is more accepting and tolerant (which is so evident it doesn't even need to be said).

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Originally posted by ******** Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If it isn't liablous or slanderous.

Technically, an opinion can't be libelous or slanderous. Libel and slander only apply to statement that are implied/expressed to be statements of fact.

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[b]Originally posted by ******** [/b They have drawn a very clear line - however when Israel works with Hamas, and Lebananon works with Hezbollah and recognize it (both are political factions of their respective countries NOT subnational - thus NOT terrorist organizations. (which the conservatives need to wake up on --- those two orgnaizations ARE NOT subnational organizations they are POLITICAL orgnaizations.. no different then militia groups in the US. (althohugh that comparison probably wouldn't go off well.. they are basically well organized militias within a 60 year old warzone.

Um...in Canada, Hamas is a terrorist organization. EOD.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Um...in Canada, Hamas is a terrorist organization. EOD.

IDF should be on that list too.

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quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 This is an issue the US has been dealing with on a large scale for more than a century, and one in which western Europe is really struggling today. I see the relevant questions being: to what extent is it ok for immigrants to retain their culture? to what extent should immigrants embrace the culture of their new land? to what extent should people be expected to modify behavior to accomodate immigrant populations? I believe it is perfectly fine for immigrants to retain most aspects of their culture (and even try to influence changes in the culture of their new land), but they must also fully embrace their new culture. Additionally, I think it is wrong for immigrants to expect the people of their new country to modify their behaviors to accomodate the immigrant populations. Being sensitive to the immigrant culture is fine, expecting behavioral changes is not fine. An example that really bugs me is when muslims in france (or england) demanding that school rules be changed to allow muslim women to wear their head scarfs. In my view, immigrants have to weigh these options prior to moving to a different country. After all, something attracted them to their new country! In my view, Chinese (and other east asian countries, i.e., Japan, Korea, Taiwan) and African immigrants display the best qualities of immigrant populations. They don't expect people to change for them. They embrace the new culture (maybe not as openly as some would wish, but all the chinese immigrants I know change their names to english names so it is easy for us to communicate with them). Most importantly (for me), it seems most members of those immigrant groups truly want to be in their new countries. Unfortunately, the way I view the things, it appears to a large extent, arab muslims make for a terrible immigrant population (which isn't to say that arab muslims are bad people - because i don't believe that to be the case). I know this is going to draw some critism, but, to a certain degree, they don't fully embrace our culture, they expect us to modify our behaviors for them, and I'm not convinced they really want to be here. For me, those are some shitty qualities for an immigrant population.

Well said.

It's been interesting to note the similarities in my multicultural living experiences (Toronto, Montreal and now Amsterdam). I know that for immigrants here, they have to go through language and social sensitivity courses (accepting nudity on tv, gays, prostitutes and pot for the most part) but it's their kids that grow up here that I think are more the issue. Yes, they integrate by learning the language, but they grow up with this huge chip on their shoulder believing that they are marginalized by everyone so they should just be a punk instead. It's sad to see, but I don't really know enough about the specific causes of it.

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quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Someone please tell me - why should any government give funding to an organization that supports Hamas AND Hezbollah, promotes anti-Semitism, and calls immigration officials horrible (uncalled for) names? These people piss me off. Why did they come to Canada if they hate so much the things that make Canada the country that it is. Canada always supported Israel, and will continue to support Israel. These Arab radical sympathizers need to get that straight. Or move back to their prosperous former countries if its so horrible over here! Immigrants do need to have access to proper facilities to teach English as a second language, but not when the people who run these places are crazy radical sympathizers who despise Canadian system for supporting Israel! Only God knows what they might be teaching people there. Smart thing to do is for the organization to fire the idiots and get real with the times and the system. http://www.torontosun.com/news/cana...986226-sun.html

I remember one of your comments that you mentioned that Ahmadinejad still said his infamous "wipe Israel off the map", so who gives a fuck what you think, you're full of shit anyways.

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Originally posted by pmoisse Well said. It's been interesting to note the similarities in my multicultural living experiences (Toronto, Montreal and now Amsterdam). I know that for immigrants here, they have to go through language and social sensitivity courses (accepting nudity on tv, gays, prostitutes and pot for the most part) but it's their kids that grow up here that I think are more the issue. Yes, they integrate by learning the language, but they grow up with this huge chip on their shoulder believing that they are marginalized by everyone so they should just be a punk instead. It's sad to see, but I don't really know enough about the specific causes of it.

First off, alot of these demands by immigrants sprout from this mentality that they are going to milk the world for all that its worth, since they feel they got dealt a shitty hand. In Sweden, I know a few families that choose not to work and just live on welfare, as they feel entitled for their previous suffering.

Its tough to see the children emerge in this environment, feeling so marginalized(perhaps by beleifs passed down from parental figures) that they become punks indeed, a self-fulfilling prophecy. You are probably familiar with Mississauga, this city is a perfect case for this phenomena of second generation immigrants(many from the islamic world). It is somewhat of a teenage wasteland, but the kids I know have great hearts, they are just misguided and oblivious.

The Islamic movements have a track record taking a mile when you give them an inch, and red flags of racism and prejudice will go up if anyone tries to contain them-as was previously mentioned. The headscarf case in France was a big debate in the middle east, and I side with rules of the host nation. We must make it clear to immigrants that they are leaving their state for another, and must adhere to the existing culture. If not, they will be ripping away at the very fabric that made them want to come in the first place.

I still sympathize with immigrants(i was a refugee myself), I remember having a crew with a bosniak and a cuban in elementary school, and I do remember cases of hatred even at that age. I could definately see the progression towards anarchist punkdom. Still, I hold it that they are always victims of their circumstance, it is a confusing ass existence. To this day it bothers me on the things in life I may miss out on compared to someone who grew up in more of a consistently stable environment. It frustrates me the most when people take their home countries for granted.


Funny you should mention AMS, when I was there i met alot of the immigrants in the coffee shops, and someone told me that the white Dutch are actually less inclined to puff than the immigrant class.