The placebo effect may have an influence.

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Originally posted by Krypton The placebo effect may have an influence.

How would you measure a "placebo effect" of religiosity? You can't give a control group "fake" religion and see how they compare to some group that gets "real" religion.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles How would you measure a "placebo effect" of religiosity? You can't give a control group "fake" religion and see how they compare to some group that gets "real" religion.

He didn't suggest you could or should measure it.

I agree with him too. It's a placebo affect. I would rather be miserable and pragmatic than happy and living in dreamland. That sounds like the "delicious steak" scene in The Matrix a bit, doesn't it?

A placebo effect is the effect of merely thinking you've received a medical treatment when you actually haven't. As far as I can tell, if you think you're religious, then you are, which leaves no room for a placebo. I'm not suggesting that God is beaming down happiness on religious people, just that adopting certain beliefs might make you consistently happier than people who don't. It's almost too obvious to need saying that someone's happiness doesn't prove the truth of a doctrine.

Right, but I believe he was using the placebo effect as a metaphor, not as an experiment.

I assume what he meant is that there is a sense of belonging in religion to something greater than the self or another person [as in a relationship].

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"Generally, religious people have a positive view of the world," said Koenig. "They believe they are here for a reason. They see a purpose and a meaning in their life and have hope." Studies show that under severely stressful conditions, religious people also cope better. "They feel that God is with them and gives them strength," said Koenig.

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"If you give of yourself and love others and have a positive outlook, you can achieve the same thing," said Koenig. "The only thing is most people can't do that. Most people need some kind of faith system and group support which a church provides."

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Health/Story?id=435412&page=1

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Originally posted by DJFreaq wtf Ygrene is energy backwards

Sergio Jimenez - Hiatus pt.1, June 07 Compilation
http://myspace.com/sergiojimenez

Also, if some belief made you happier, wouldn't it be the "pragmatic thing" to try and adopt that belief, assuming the negative effects of believing it wouldn't outweigh the happiness you gained from it? Pragmatism is concerned with what works to get you what you want. The ethic of "always facing the harsh truth, no matter the cost" isn't a pragmatic one...

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles A placebo effect is the effect of merely thinking you've received a medical treatment when you actually haven't. As far as I can tell, if you think you're religious, then you are, which leaves no room for a placebo. I'm not suggesting that God is beaming down happiness on religious people, just that adopting certain beliefs might make you consistently happier than people who don't. It's almost too obvious to need saying that someone's happiness doesn't prove the truth of a doctrine.

You'v got it all wrong. It's not, "I believe I am religious."

Say, I pray for something. My faith in that prayer being answered could become a self-fulfilling prophecy. The power of positive thinking is immense. Millionaire entrepreneurs could testify to that. It does lend itself to the benefits of having faith.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles A placebo effect is the effect of merely thinking you've received a medical treatment when you actually haven't.

Prayer.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles A placebo effect is the effect of merely thinking you've received a medical treatment when you actually haven't. As far as I can tell, if you think you're religious, then you are, which leaves no room for a placebo. I'm not suggesting that God is beaming down happiness on religious people, just that adopting certain beliefs might make you consistently happier than people who don't. It's almost too obvious to need saying that someone's happiness doesn't prove the truth of a doctrine.

Yes, but placebo can also represent any kind of false panacea, whether physical or otherwise. You know exactly what Krypton means but you're purposely "misunderstanding" him for the means of this argument. Stop it; it's annoying. The "placebo" isn't thinking you're a religious person or not, it's believing that religion works (edit, as saluyamo said: prayer).

Also, on pragmatic, you're probably right. The word generally means someone who will use the direct, most simple method for achieving their ends. However:

pragmatism - realism: the attribute of accepting the facts of life and favoring practicality and literal truth.

Okay, I'll drop the placebo point.

It seems like everyone so far has agreed that religious people are happier on average, ceteris paribus -- or at least no one has disputed it. So, is this just a matter of self-delusion? Or perhaps part of it is the happiness that comes from fitting into the dominant culture of religiosity and being able to relate to people who share your beliefs.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles In my experience it seems like non-religious people -- people with no belief in God and no spiritual practices of any kind -- are more likely to have had problems with depression and anxiety,

But how many people feel like that because they don’t believe in god's love or an afterlife?

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