Become a part of the TranceAddict community!Frequently Asked Questions - Please read this if you haven'tSearch the forums
TranceAddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > Canada > Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont. > Police can seize your property without charges being laid or conviction
Pages (8): [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Share
Author
Thread    Post A Reply
Jayx1
Prime Minister of TOTA



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: The Socialist People's Republic Of Canada
Police can seize your property without charges being laid or conviction

Again, for those who think we arent headed toward fascism, have a read. This scares the hell out of me. Combined with the new drunk driving laws, hate speech laws, and 50 over/"street racing" law we are really losing our right to jurisprudence and a fair hearing.

This topic of liberty and justice really should be the #1 issue in any upcoming elections to be honest.

And before anyone gets all snobby about it being in the Sun, Eddie Greenspan is one of the most sought after and respected lawyers in Canada.

quote:
Proof goes poof

Police can seize cash, property without charges or convictions

By EDWARD GREENSPAN


When Robin Chatterjee was pulled over for having a missing licence plate, police claimed they smelled marijuana in his car.

They searched the car and found $29,000 in cash and a few items commonly used for growing marijuana. The police recognized they did not have evidence to charge him with any crime. Instead, they confiscated the items, along with the $29,000.

Shockingly, this happened in Canada. The Supreme Court of Canada recently ruled such forfeitures do not violate the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

If the police just "think" property in your possession may have come from criminal activity, it can be legally confiscated.

Ontario's Civil Remedies Act "does not require an allegation or proof that a particular person committed a particular crime," the court wrote. This is an extraordinary grant of police power and the potential for abuse or misuse is extreme.

Many readers have no problem with the notion of police powers being exercised against criminals. But Chatterjee was never even charged with a crime, let alone convicted of one. This did not matter to the court, which wrote the trial judge "could have accepted wholeheartedly (Chatterjee's) claim that he was entirely innocent of any involvement with marijuana cultivation, yet still ordered forfeiture."

That is a remarkable statement. What happened to proof beyond a reasonable doubt? What ever happened to the principle that "the punishment must fit the crime?"

Chatterjee may have been a suspicious character. After all, it is rather unusual to travel with tools typically used for growing marijuana plus $29,000 in cash. But it is not illegal.

Receipt, please

Imagine the police pull your car over for a broken tail light or come to your house because you are waking your neighbours. Will you need to provide a receipt to justify any unusual or expensive possessions the police notice that you have?

And if you can't, should you lose your things, even with no criminal conviction?

I think it violates the principle of proof beyond a reasonable doubt to confiscate alleged proceeds of crime without any criminal charge. In a free and democratic society, we should not have to explain ourselves to the police any time we are pulled over.

In my view, if the police do not have grounds to arrest you, you should be free to go, and to take your property without having to prove it is lawfully yours.

The unfortunate trend, however, is our society's interest in personal privacy continues to degrade, coming close to the point of no return.

Since 2004, six other provinces have joined Ontario by enacting civil forfeiture laws. B.C., has confiscated more than $5 million since its law came into effect in 2006. B.C.'s Civil Forfeiture Office (BCCFO) is funded by proceeds of confiscated goods, and the office became entirely self-funded 18 months ahead of schedule.

This should be nothing to be proud of, but the BCCFO gleefully boasts it is "an exercise in efficiency" and it's "business model" is premised on "ease of access for law enforcement personnel."

It scares the hell out of me that a government forfeiture office sees itself as a business. Confiscating goods and money without sufficient proof of criminal conduct should not be undertaken so cavalierly.

U.S.-style abuses

Such programs are likely, if not certain, to suffer from the exact same sorts of abuses that have occurred in the U.S., where it is not uncommon to hear of forfeited goods going missing or forfeited cars winding up in the hands of law enforcement personnel.

The state took Chatterjee's money and other items because the cops smelled marijuana in his car. I am left to wonder what they would have confiscated had Chatterjee actually had drugs on him. Maybe his kidney?

Old Post Jun-08-2009 22:27  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Jayx1 Click here to Send Jayx1 a Private Message Add Jayx1 to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Ozmozis
Music is the Vibe



Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Toronto

Now this is complete bullshit!


___________________
www.ozmozisevents.com
Facebook Fanpage

Old Post Jun-08-2009 22:30 
Click Here to See the Profile for Ozmozis Click here to Send Ozmozis a Private Message Visit Ozmozis's homepage! Add Ozmozis to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Jayx1
Prime Minister of TOTA



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: The Socialist People's Republic Of Canada

I know a guy who smokes weed all the time and carries tens of thousands on him all the time as he is filthy rich. He is a legit business man who probably would be found with a bong in his car if ever searched. I guess in this country he is automatically guilty of whatever the cops want to believe?

Sad sad sad

Old Post Jun-08-2009 22:33  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Jayx1 Click here to Send Jayx1 a Private Message Add Jayx1 to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Dr. Z
edm sux



Registered: Sep 2002
Location: Toronto/Waterloo, Canada

so are we going towards fascism or communism?

Old Post Jun-08-2009 22:39  Yugoslavia
Click Here to See the Profile for Dr. Z Click here to Send Dr. Z a Private Message Visit Dr. Z's homepage! Add Dr. Z to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Jayx1
Prime Minister of TOTA



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: The Socialist People's Republic Of Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Z
so are we going towards fascism or communism?


Ask the left wing leaders. They seem to know best!

Either way it scares me.

Old Post Jun-08-2009 22:40  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Jayx1 Click here to Send Jayx1 a Private Message Add Jayx1 to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Man_Devil
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: May 2009
Location: Toronto

quote:
Originally posted by Jayx1
carries tens of thousands on him all the time as he is filthy rich.


I assume you are exagerating... why would anyone carry around that much cash? Unless you are some douche who just likes to be seen with tons of cash like you are filming a rap video or something.

Old Post Jun-08-2009 22:41  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Man_Devil Click here to Send Man_Devil a Private Message Add Man_Devil to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Jayx1
Prime Minister of TOTA



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: The Socialist People's Republic Of Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Man_Devil
I assume you are exagerating... why would anyone carry around that much cash? Unless you are some douche who just likes to be seen with tons of cash like you are filming a rap video or something.


Im not exaggerating and hes not some douche. In fact hes anything but flashy. Where he comes from credit cards arent the norm and its what he is used to. But i guess assumptions about people is exactly what scares me when the police are allowed to do this with the clout of authority and without reprisal.

To some people 10K isnt a lot of money. To some people $100 IS a lot of money. Its all about perspective i guess.

Old Post Jun-08-2009 22:43  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Jayx1 Click here to Send Jayx1 a Private Message Add Jayx1 to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Man_Devil
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: May 2009
Location: Toronto

quote:
Originally posted by Jayx1
Where he comes from credit cards arent the norm and its what he is used to.

To some people 10K isnt a lot of money. To some people $100 IS a lot of money. Its all about perspective i guess.


I guess... but carrying around a big bag of cash is kinda ridiculous. Its like back in the day when you had to drag around some goat to go trade someone for their chickens; more of a hassle than anything.

The only real reason to pay with cash is to avoid a paper trail...

Old Post Jun-08-2009 23:23  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Man_Devil Click here to Send Man_Devil a Private Message Add Man_Devil to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Silky Johnson
International Playa Hater



Registered: Nov 2003
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Jayx1
carries tens of thousands on him all the time




Your buddy sounds like a goddamned idiot. Do you know lots of idiots?

Old Post Jun-08-2009 23:26 
Click Here to See the Profile for Silky Johnson Click here to Send Silky Johnson a Private Message Add Silky Johnson to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Jayx1
Prime Minister of TOTA



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: The Socialist People's Republic Of Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Man_Devil
I guess... but carrying around a big bag of cash is kinda ridiculous. Its like back in the day when you had to drag around some goat to go trade someone for their chickens; more of a hassle than anything.

The only real reason to pay with cash is to avoid a paper trail...


A lot of things people do from other countries seems ridiculous.

I remember when living in argentina i would pay for things with credit (when i could) to get the points. People looked at me like i was crazy. In argentina only POOR people tend to use credit cards and it is a sign of poverty except when buying an airline ticket or something like that where its a necessity. They couldnt understand why a gringo would be using a credit card. Even deposits on car rentals are done mostly in cash. Also credit card purchases were charged an extra 10%. I am assuming the same is the case where my friend comes from which is why i would understand his routine of carrying a lot of cash.

Its all about perspective when it comes to what is a lot of money

Old Post Jun-08-2009 23:57  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Jayx1 Click here to Send Jayx1 a Private Message Add Jayx1 to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Jayx1
Prime Minister of TOTA



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: The Socialist People's Republic Of Canada

quote:
Originally posted by jennypie
Your buddy sounds like a goddamned idiot. Do you know lots of idiots?


If being a self made man is being an idiot im all for being an idiot!

Old Post Jun-08-2009 23:58  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Jayx1 Click here to Send Jayx1 a Private Message Add Jayx1 to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
chinamon
el shit disturbo



Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Markham, ON

quote:
Originally posted by jennypie
Your buddy sounds like a goddamned idiot. Do you know lots of idiots?


just because someone can afford to carry lots of cash on them does not make them an idiot.
just because that same person does something that you do not agree with does not make them an idiot.


___________________

Old Post Jun-08-2009 23:59 
Click Here to See the Profile for chinamon Click here to Send chinamon a Private Message Add chinamon to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message

TranceAddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > Canada > Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont. > Police can seize your property without charges being laid or conviction
Post New Thread    Post A Reply

Pages (8): [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 »  
Last Thread   Next Thread
Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackVeracoche - Carte Blanche... which remix? [2004] [5]

Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackTiesto - "Theme From Norefjell" (Cor Fijneman Remix) [2005]

Show Printable Version | Subscribe to this Thread
Forum Jump:

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:37.

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
Search this Thread:

 
Contact Us - return to tranceaddict

Powered by: Trance Music & vBulletin Forums
Copyright ©2000-2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Privacy Statement / DMCA
Support TA!