Hello!

I´ve searched for information about how to make snare(s) & clap(s) to "sit right" into my drum-loop (groove), but without much luck. i do not usually post on forums, but i´ve come to a "dead end" and really need some help!

Normally i use samples from the "Vengeance series", "Thomas Penton series" or "Loopmasters series" etc, and i´ve no problem getting the kick, hihats and other percussion to sit right in my projects, but when i try to get a snare or clap going into my groove they always feels "wrong". When i listen thru a sample CD for some snare(s) / clap(s) samples i think i manage to "find" the right sound (sample) for my loop, but when i add it into my drum-loop with the other drum elements it doesn´t fit...

My main problems is that sometime the tone (pitch) of the snare / clap seems wrong, sometimes the "snap" of the snare / clap seems hitting to hard, sometimes the snare / clap seems just cheesy and i loose my motivation. Of course i try to tweak and adjust my sample(s), but i must be something wrong coz i´m not getting the results that i´d like!

Listen to these tracks for more info about the snares / claps i like, how do they get that "right sound"?

Tilt - Twelve (Dousk Remix)
Jaytech - Pyramid (Dinka Mix)
Bart Van Wissen - Space Tourist

How do u guys make your snares / claps "blend" and fit into your mixes, what kind of "tools" (plugin) and technique do you use (?),

Please give me some advice, i am getting desperate not getting the results i want! And If anyone knows some good tutorials for this subject i would be very happy!

My setup is like this:
- MAC
- Logic Express with Ableton Live rewired
- JBL LSR4300 monitors

Regards: Chris / Norway

Turn down the volume.

Yeah, it sounds simple, but I'm ashamed to admit how long it took me to realize that a lot of the problems with my percs were simply that they were too loud.

Hi there,
I haven't experimented much yet on this but using a compressor can help the clap/snare "fit". The trick is to get the timing of the compressor right. Set your attack after the initial hit as you probably don't want to change the snap of the sample. Try a ratio of 4:1 and then the important part is getting the timing of the release to coincide with the end of the sample(which should be the beginning of the next beat if you're using one of those huge reverb like claps). Now your sample will feel like its working with and belongs with the kick and hopefully the other percussion.

As stated before I haven't really tried this so maybe a pro amoungst us can shed some light

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If you are using loops which already contain a snare or clap.. be sure to remove that from the loop, even though it may not be very audible or high in volume it makes a HUGE impact on the snare you want to use for the track.. so be sure to have only one snare, unless you are intentionally layering them of course.
A snare from a loop can actually ruin a whole drum groove without you realising it.

Using a compressor can be very useful in order to shape the timing of the snare.. put a lot of compression on a snare and experiment with attack times to hear what a huge difference it can make.

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http://soundcloud.com/subtara

Bear in mind the Jaytech/dinka track is incredibly well mixed, with superb sounds in the first place and great mastering.

A huge part of getting it right is using the right samples with each other and the track as a whole. It;s a reason the 808 and 909 samples are so popular becuase they fit in so many way and are very close to neutral.

David makes a good point and compression is certainly useful but it's really a subtle tool, and in your case needed for gentle contouring of the sounds.

A lot has to do with getting the rest of the sounds to fit and the prec needs to comliment that, including things like creating the right feel of fx (reverb/room mix, delay, comp. etc.) so they all fit toghter nicely. No easy fix on this one....

its all about getting the right sample to fit with that particular kick and the rest of your percs, thats it
Then you could subtley adjust the tone, maybe the length if its too long
Also experiment with at the timing of the snare/clap - maybe pull it a few ms before the kick, or push it a few ms after

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IME, getting snares/claps to sit in the mix is no different (and often easier with quality samples) than any other instrument. Standard mixing guidelines apply here:

- EQ unnecessary frequencies out, and possibly give a small boost, only as needed, to add punch, or presence, or clarity, etc.

- compress as needed, but with quality samples, I rarely use it. About the only time I compress the snare track is when I'm working with live drums.

- reverb to add space; usually as a send effect and usually using the same reverb for all percs to keep them in the same sonic space. The exception is when I'm after an obvious snare drum-specific effect.

- panning - sometimes I pan the snare just off-center depending on how many other instruments I have going in the same frequency range, their panning position, etc.

Other tips: consider routing all your drums to one buss and compressing them as one to help them gel. Also, when mixing, try starting with the snare drum zero'ed (-inf) and bring it up slowly until it sits right - VERY IMPORTANT: use your ears, not your eyes (try doing it with closed eyes). Your eyes will often not believe, for example, that -24 on your slider is the right level for your snare, but if that's what your ears are telling you, then that's the right level.

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quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik IME, getting snares/claps to sit in the mix is no different (and often easier with quality samples) than any other instrument. Standard mixing guidelines apply here: - EQ unnecessary frequencies out, and possibly give a small boost, only as needed, to add punch, or presence, or clarity, etc. - compress as needed, but with quality samples, I rarely use it. About the only time I compress the snare track is when I'm working with live drums. - reverb to add space; usually as a send effect and usually using the same reverb for all percs to keep them in the same sonic space. The exception is when I'm after an obvious snare drum-specific effect. - panning - sometimes I pan the snare just off-center depending on how many other instruments I have going in the same frequency range, their panning position, etc. Other tips: consider routing all your drums to one buss and compressing them as one to help them gel. Also, when mixing, try starting with the snare drum zero'ed (-inf) and bring it up slowly until it sits right - VERY IMPORTANT: use your ears, not your eyes (try doing it with closed eyes). Your eyes will often not believe, for example, that -24 on your slider is the right level for your snare, but if that's what your ears are telling you, then that's the right level.

Superb :-)

I really gotta say thank you for that good reply. In my "ears" your reply seems like a perfect tutorial for me to follow!

I gotta say thanks to the other answers as well!

- Chris

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Bear in mind the Jaytech/dinka track is incredibly well mixed, with superb sounds in the first place and great mastering.

Kind of off topic, but Dinka has quickly become on of my favorite producers as of late. Outstanding mixing, great arrangement and composition, so far everything he (they?) have put out has been great.

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J Kind of off topic, but Dinka has quickly become on of my favorite producers as of late. Outstanding mixing, great arrangement and composition, so far everything he (they?) have put out has been great.

Agreed!

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has anyone notice how some peoples claps get like twice as loud when the kick drops? i know its some kind of compression but anyone has a good setting for it?

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quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja has anyone notice how some peoples claps get like twice as loud when the kick drops? i know its some kind of compression but anyone has a good setting for it?

Presumably, the snare/clap is ducked by a few dB using sidechained compression triggered by the kick causing them to return to their normal (louder) level when the kick drops out, or the volume is just automated to increase the snare/clap by a few dB during passages in which the kick drops out.

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Sonar Platinum | Ableton Live 9 | Logic Pro X | Access Virus TI2 Keyboard | Kurzweil PC3X | Nord Lead 4R | NI Maschine