Well, it just happened again. Another closed-minded arrogant prick on another forum just made the "whatever happened to actually learning to play an insttument?" comment in a thread where I was discussing my DAW's new step sequencer with one of the developers.

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?&m=1803151&mpage=2
(comment #37)

I don't know if I'm more pissed off that he just assumed that I had no ability to play an instrument because I happened to be discussing a step sequencer, or that he just assumes that people who use things like step sequencers are somehow less of a musician than he is. I get so sick of this snobbery toward EDM musicians (& hip-hop etc.) and I do play several instruments - I can't imagine how much these kind of comments would piss off someone who doesn't play an instrument, but is just as passionate about producing EDM (or whatever) with their DAW as he is about his instrument. What do you guys think?

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There are all kinds of arrogant musicians who think that no one who lacks whatever they have can make anything worth listening to. Just ignore them and carry on with your work, IMO. I say this as a guy who has only a small knowledge of theory and does not play an instrument. EDM is all about a level playing field anyway, you do not have to engage in silly dick-measuring contests about your advanced chops or the special qualities of your instrument. The only things that matter are the love and skill that go into the creation and the end product that comes out of the speakers. If some people from other genres cannot "get" this mentality, it is no big deal to me.

Its the same argument against DJ's. When I switched from playing drums in a metal band to EDM (many, many years ago), none of my friends, save one, could understand it and i took all kinds of hell about it. I think it just boils down to people not understanding what it is all about. I think a lot of inexperienced musicians who play "real" instruments have no idea about what it takes to make a professional recording. I dont think they realize how much post processing goes into any real recording.

EDM producers have to be writers, arrangers, mixing engineers, sound designers and (sometimes) mastering engineers. That's 6 distinct disciplines that one has to learn to be successful in this genre. In traditional recording, thats 6 different people who perform these functions, yet we have to learn it all as one person. A typical guitar player just has to concentrate on guitar. It takes an incredible amount of skill to produce music like we do, and i think there is just a general lack of understanding among the traditional music world about what it is exactly that we all do. You have the be really smart, really talented, and really dedicated to even come close to producing anything good in this genre.

Frankly, I like it that way. I kind of like being "in the know" when a large majority of the people i know, musicians or not, haven't the slightest idea what i do. While they are all out at the pub getting hammered, I'm in the studio making kick ass music, and I wouldn't have it any other way. They don't really get it until they hear the final product, then its like "wow, you MADE this?" I'm driven by a passion for this music, which is more than I can say for a lot of people. How many other people do you know who love this music enough to dedicated so much money, time and resources to this pursuit? I have a tremendous amount of respect for all people who try to produce music seriously, because I know what it takes to be good at it.

Last edited by Eric J on Aug-29-2009 at 04:42

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles There are all kinds of arrogant musicians who think that no one who lacks whatever they have can make anything worth listening to. Just ignore them and carry on with your work, IMO. I say this as a guy who has only a small knowledge of theory and does not play an instrument. EDM is all about a level playing field anyway, you do not have to engage in silly dick-measuring contests about your advanced chops or the special qualities of your instrument. The only things that matter are the love and skill that go into the creation and the end product that comes out of the speakers.

Yeah, and that too.

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J When I switched from playing drums...

We're talking about musicians, not drummers, Eric!

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quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik We're talking about musicians, not drummers, Eric!

Yah, well...

Its great to be able to make complete works without having to rely on anyone else.

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quote:

Originally posted by Subtle Its great to be able to make complete works without having to rely on anyone else.

You know, when i quit bands and sold my drums for turntables, that was one of the neat things about it. At first it related to mixtapes, and now original productions.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles There are all kinds of arrogant musicians who think that no one who lacks whatever they have can make anything worth listening to. Just ignore them and carry on with your work, IMO. I say this as a guy who has only a small knowledge of theory and does not play an instrument. EDM is all about a level playing field anyway, you do not have to engage in silly dick-measuring contests about your advanced chops or the special qualities of your instrument. The only things that matter are the love and skill that go into the creation and the end product that comes out of the speakers. If some people from other genres cannot "get" this mentality, it is no big deal to me.

Definitely good points. I guess that, as a guy who spent most of life learning instruments and playing instruments, I don't see a need for snobbery. Actually, just the opposite - I agree 100% with Subtle that it really is pretty incredible what one person can do with a DAW/sequencer these days, even without any formal training. I guess I see using a DAW to make music as being not much different than learning to play a more traditional instrument. And, just like learning an instrument, it takes time and experience to become proficient at it.

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quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Well, it just happened again. Another closed-minded arrogant prick on another forum just made the "whatever happened to actually learning to play an insttument?" comment in a thread where I was discussing my DAW's new step sequencer with one of the developers. http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?&m=1803151&mpage=2 (comment #37) I don't know if I'm more pissed off that he just assumed that I had no ability to play an instrument because I happened to be discussing a step sequencer, or that he just assumes that people who use things like step sequencers are somehow less of a musician than he is. I get so sick of this snobbery toward EDM musicians (& hip-hop etc.) and I do play several instruments - I can't imagine how much these kind of comments would piss off someone who doesn't play an instrument, but is just as passionate about producing EDM (or whatever) with their DAW as he is about his instrument. What do you guys think?

i think this is definitely extremely annoying, but just like bullying in any sphere, the best thing you can do is know that you are (if anything) far superior because, as eric said, as a producer you don't just know how to hold a guitar at crotch level and strike epic poses (although the posing does work well for armin), but have to actually know a huge number of different instruments, how they interact, and even after the instruments, how to mix them...

sif some dickhead in a band knows anything like that...

but yeah, i try to ignore it and be modest... (not sure how well it works, otherwise my above points would probably be a lot less rage-filled, but yeah...)

when it comes to music anyone who has the guts to question anyone else's skill level based on anything except their musical output (instruments, knowledge of theory etc) is clearly an idiot that shouldn't be dealt with anyway...

and yeah, i have no theoretical knowledge and can't play an instrument "live"...

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My biggest issue with that douchebags' statement is that it implies that ALL EDM producers don't use real instruments.

Shit, thats part of the fun. I can use any goddamn instrument I please, "real" or not. If the end product moves people then the producer has done his job.

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Well, I, and all of us in this board knows that it takes a lot of work to make a song. The skills you need for edm are totally different from traditional music.

finding out what sounds good with what is like esoteric knowledge to me. there's also 8000gillion choices for you to make which makes it hard. the amount of shapes and colors for everything in this genre is infinite and finding out what sounds good with what is what makes it challenging.

not saying that traditional music is easy (it seems way harder to me), but just defending the edm position.

I think people are just afraid of this fake music. Top 40 radio is dominated by synthy stuff these days, in this decade only a few emo bands made it to top 40 and then it died out again it seems.