Ok so this is a result of my bassline thread breakdown from a while back, when I said a "professional" bassline couldn't be made with vsts.

Well this sample is all z3ta (synths too) and for the first time I think I'm actually satisfied with the bass, and believe it or not it wasn't doing all this crazy technical shit that got me to this point, I actually went back to the basics.

I noticed my layering skills sucked. I had this problem with picking 2 completely different sounds and trying to tweak them so they meshed together into one amazing bassline, it NEVER worked. And I found overall 3 things made a pretty big difference.

Layering bass is A LOT easier if you pick 2 of the same exact bass sounds, and tweak each JUST A LITTLE BIT. My problem was I was trying to always get this deep sound by tweaking both sounds entirely too much, and it always wound up becoming muddy or just sounding like shit.

Second, sidechaining. I realized even when you cut under 150 its still a good idea to sidechain, I use to assume because those frequencies were cut, that the kick would have plenty of space to breath. But now I found a very SLIGHT sidechain is the key. You simply adjust to the point where the kick retains most of its natural punch and dynamics, but not too much to where theres a noticeable pumping sound.(unless thats what you're going for just not my cup of tea)

And finally, I've tried detuning, phasing, flanging, chorus, bit crushing, EVERYTHING on bass. But it still seems like a good distortion plugin is the way to go to get that rough dynamic edge. (and FL's native distortion is absolutely terrible too do not use it)

Anyway, thats what I've learned so far. Please don't focus on anything but the bass in the mix, theres a lot more I could have done to the mix itself but I just wanted it to be heard with other elements.

I'd really like to know what people think. I know its nothing special but I think I have a pretty decent formula down now thats way more consistent and effective then before.



http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5...%20Attempt.mp3

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Sequencers: FL Studio 9XXL & Reason 3.
Main Synth Bass GTs - Pro-53, V-Station, Sytrus, Subtractor, Trilian, Blue, Sylenth & Z3ta.
Main Synth Lead/Pad GTs - Z3ta, Sytrus, Sylenth, Vangard, Albino & Nexus.
Main FXs GTs - Waves Plugins, Soundtoys, Volcano, FL Native FX.
Hardware - Truths, Echo Audiofire, Virus Snow, & Novation Xio Midi-Synth.

Congrats. I remember when you thought there was some secret it.

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quote:

Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

You have some good pointers in there, DJ Robby. Trail and error may be a slow way to learn, but as your post shows, what you do learn really sticks. You gain an intuitive understanding of the concept that goes beyond words.
I used the same approach with sound design. Back 20 years ago, I didn't know jack shit about synthesis. My first REAL synth was a DX-100 (suprise birthday present from my parents and reward for getting good grades in school) and I got so frustrated with the dang thing, particularly because I didn't find the manual very helpful and I had absolutely no subtractive synthesis background to fall back on. This was the 80's, FM was the "in" thing, and I was just a clueless kid who didn't know what he was about to get into lol.
All that tearing my hair out in frustration and damn near throwing that little turd out the window at times eventually paid off, though. To this very day, pure FM is my very favorite type of synthesis and I actually find it much easier to work with than VA/subtractive synths because you have so much more control over the sound.
Years later, I went out and got a used JX-8P and could'nt get it out of my head how "strange sounding" and yet so simplistic subtractive synths were.

Trial and error, my friend, the right-brained approach, that's the way to go . Then you read someone else's tips and tricks and think to yourself "ooooh yeah, THAT's what he's talking about".

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Thanks guys, and Xenos whats funny is I'm right brain dominant, (left handed) but sometimes I think that actually causes more problems then vice versa.

Because if I don't understand something that creative side of my mind will turn on and create an explanation of its own, even if its not true. I mean a few months back I had convinced myself there was some sort of bassline conspiracy going on where everyone who knew how to make a good bassline was sharing some secret lol. I really drive myself crazy sometimes.

But the truth is I really am happy because I've been consistently getting results now and not by accident anymore. I feel like for once I have the right to sit down and finish a track because all my sounds are on the same level, like nothings perfect but nothing is really lacking a lot either. So this whole week now I'm gonna be back to writing complete tracks and trying out new sounds and ideas, really excited. For the last few months I really haven't been making music at all, just working on bass. And I finally feel like that obsession can officially be shitcanned now.

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Sequencers: FL Studio 9XXL & Reason 3.
Main Synth Bass GTs - Pro-53, V-Station, Sytrus, Subtractor, Trilian, Blue, Sylenth & Z3ta.
Main Synth Lead/Pad GTs - Z3ta, Sytrus, Sylenth, Vangard, Albino & Nexus.
Main FXs GTs - Waves Plugins, Soundtoys, Volcano, FL Native FX.
Hardware - Truths, Echo Audiofire, Virus Snow, & Novation Xio Midi-Synth.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox Thanks guys, and Xenos whats funny is I'm right brain dominant, (left handed) but sometimes I think that actually causes more problems then vice versa. Because if I don't understand something that creative side of my mind will turn on and create an explanation of its own, even if its not true. I mean a few months back I had convinced myself there was some sort of bassline conspiracy going on where everyone who knew how to make a good bassline was sharing some secret lol. I really drive myself crazy sometimes. But the truth is I really am happy because I've been consistently getting results now and not by accident anymore. I feel like for once I have the right to sit down and finish a track because all my sounds are on the same level, like nothings perfect but nothing is really lacking a lot either. So this whole week now I'm gonna be back to writing complete tracks and trying out new sounds and ideas, really excited. For the last few months I really haven't been making music at all, just working on bass. And I finally feel like that obsession can officially be shitcanned now.

Glad to hear things are turning out well for you, dude . It IS pretty inspiring when you finally do nail a new skill and get all those ideas on what you can do with it.

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http://xenossoundworks.com Preset banks for sale.

Yeah well done Robby, glad you've put that demon to bed.

I know where your coming from in all this it's trial and error.

Another little tip here instead of using a distortion plugin pick your self up PSP Vintage Warmer it's excellent for that sort of stuff. I use it all the time in my basslines it brings it out nice.

Waza

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quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox and FL's native distortion is absolutely terrible too do not use it

whaaat! blood overdrive is f'ing awesome! but it's not an amp/tube distortion, which is what you probably want to use on most basslines.

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There seem to be either clipping problems or distortion artifacts created by the limiter (or maybe compressor attack related or possiibly low rumble distortion artifacts) in the later part of the sample you posted especially noticable as soon as the lead Cutoff opens up.
Very subtle, but it would annoy me as a listener.

lISTENED TO YOUR SAMPLE - BUT I'M NOT SURE WHICH BASS YOU MEAN - ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE MID 'ROLLING' BASS.

Shit, I just used capitals by accident - sorry - cant be arsed to change it.

Your'e rolling bass has the right sound in terms of oscillators, but it does'nt sound full like a professional track.

I myself have been struggling with this for ages - it's almost driving me nuts. I'm finding like you it seems to be best to use the same oscillator type, but now the 'fullness' is the hard part. I've tried all the fx - literally hundreds of hours tweaking.

I think I'm going down the road of using like dozens of oscillators to get the fullness. Sure Ive tried just 3 and detuned with delay and distortion etc etc but that didnt give me the full sound I want.

I dont know if you listen to the podcast on above and beyond called TATW (trance around the world) - for me the best place on the planet to hear where the trance sound is going and the best tracks out there, but people like Akesson with his new track flavour park, have a massive full sound just way above most others IMO.

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You're getting there robby but I agree with richard. the "mid bass" doesnt sound like them in the other tracks. It kinda sounds like its coming out of a radio or something like its too synthetic. I think it might be too upper mids and now enough lower mids

however as you progress i think you will learn how to make them sound better.

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quote:

Originally posted by meriter Your primary focus should be making good music. That's all. No one gives a shit how you do it. And the people that do are fags.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler I dont know if you listen to the podcast on above and beyond called TATW (trance around the world) - for me the best place on the planet to hear where the trance sound is going and the best tracks out there, but people like Akesson with his new track flavour park, have a massive full sound just way above most others IMO.

It's just massive use of Sidechain squashed against a Limiter. It's actually the absolute average reflection of today's Trance.

Last edited by Morvan on Sep-18-2009 at 11:29