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Chryz707
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Here and there
Copenhage/Hopenhagen - FLOPENHAGEN

I am not sure how many people are paying attention to this, but what a Farce! It should be called FLOPENHAGEN! They should have had this coference in the middle of polluted Beijing where on most days you cant see the skyline what so ever!

Copenhagen Climate Change conference is a total joke! It should be called Flopehagen! When Industrialized nations of the world want to change the world they will, but the greed factor will always be there because the world leaders are to afraid to say or do anything to upset thier corporate backers who put them in office! Bottom line the enviroment and our children will suffer because of the Government/Corporate greed!

When they all have to be driven in seperate vehicles that is rediculous, They should have all been met at the hotel they were all staying at and had an enviromentally green bus take them all to the conference, but no they have to have extra limousines sent from other locations to support! This is why its called FLOPENHAGEN!


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Last edited by Chryz707 on Dec-16-2009 at 10:22

Old Post Dec-16-2009 10:10  Europe
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

The key is to use greed to incentivize "going green".


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Old Post Dec-16-2009 19:48  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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Chryz707
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Here and there

its obvious this conference was a failure! The U.S. and China the key to Enviromental Stability, but as far as people are making thier money it wont matter, Our kids will suffer!


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Old Post Dec-18-2009 06:19  Europe
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hardcore trancer
Mystic Mind



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,Canada

I just really really hope that in 50 yrs we don't look back at this summit and wonder why we didn't do fuck all.


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Old Post Dec-19-2009 01:01 
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Moongoose
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Apr 2003
Location: Celje, Slovenia

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
The key is to use greed to incentivize "going green".


Im thinking of the episode of the simpsons where Mr Burns goes broke then teams up with lisa who helps him make a gazillion dollars by going green.


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Old Post Dec-19-2009 01:19  Slovenia
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pmoisse
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Amsterdam, NL (formerly Montreal QC)

quote:
Originally posted by Moongoose
Im thinking of the episode of the simpsons where Mr Burns goes broke then teams up with lisa who helps him make a gazillion dollars by going green.


Good call!


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Old Post Dec-19-2009 09:29  Canada
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Jlo
Suspended User



Registered: Dec 2009
Location: NY

I was surprised by seeing the uproar from small island group, never knew they cared about climate issue and things.. but well done, they made Copenhagen like any third world Parliament house.. with opposition walking out, punching other members of parliament, shouting when other is speaking and stuff like that.. so world has now its own Parliament.

Old Post Dec-19-2009 10:21  Australia
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Chryz707
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Here and there

Supposed a deal was reached, but actions speak louder than words... Lets see if Flopenhagen is really a Flop or not!


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Old Post Dec-20-2009 20:33  Europe
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

You do realize that doesn't rhyme with Kobenhavn, right?


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Old Post Dec-20-2009 20:48  United Nations
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Jlo
Suspended User



Registered: Dec 2009
Location: NY

grop and hang in..

Old Post Dec-22-2009 15:30  Australia
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Lira
Ancient BassAddict



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Brasilia, Brazil

Here's an interesting read I didn't see anywhere else:
quote:
How do I know China wrecked the Copenhagen deal? I was in the room

Copenhagen was a disaster. That much is agreed. But the truth about what actually happened is in danger of being lost amid the spin and inevitable mutual recriminations. The truth is this: China wrecked the talks, intentionally humiliated Barack Obama, and insisted on an awful "deal" so western leaders would walk away carrying the blame. How do I know this? Because I was in the room and saw it happen.

China's strategy was simple: block the open negotiations for two weeks, and then ensure that the closed-door deal made it look as if the west had failed the world's poor once again. And sure enough, the aid agencies, civil society movements and environmental groups all took the bait. The failure was "the inevitable result of rich countries refusing adequately and fairly to shoulder their overwhelming responsibility", said Christian Aid. "Rich countries have bullied developing nations," fumed Friends of the Earth International.

All very predictable, but the complete opposite of the truth. Even George Monbiot, writing in yesterday's Guardian, made the mistake of singly blaming Obama. But I saw Obama fighting desperately to salvage a deal, and the Chinese delegate saying "no", over and over again. Monbiot even approvingly quoted the Sudanese delegate Lumumba Di-Aping, who denounced the Copenhagen accord as "a suicide pact, an incineration pact, in order to maintain the economic dominance of a few countries".

Sudan behaves at the talks as a puppet of China; one of a number of countries that relieves the Chinese delegation of having to fight its battles in open sessions. It was a perfect stitch-up. China gutted the deal behind the scenes, and then left its proxies to savage it in public.

Here's what actually went on late last Friday night, as heads of state from two dozen countries met behind closed doors. Obama was at the table for several hours, sitting between Gordon Brown and the Ethiopian prime minister, Meles Zenawi. The Danish prime minister chaired, and on his right sat Ban Ki-moon, secretary-general of the UN. Probably only about 50 or 60 people, including the heads of state, were in the room. I was attached to one of the delegations, whose head of state was also present for most of the time.

What I saw was profoundly shocking. The Chinese premier, Wen Jinbao, did not deign to attend the meetings personally, instead sending a second-tier official in the country's foreign ministry to sit opposite Obama himself. The diplomatic snub was obvious and brutal, as was the practical implication: several times during the session, the world's most powerful heads of state were forced to wait around as the Chinese delegate went off to make telephone calls to his "superiors".

Shifting the blame

To those who would blame Obama and rich countries in general, know this: it was China's representative who insisted that industrialised country targets, previously agreed as an 80% cut by 2050, be taken out of the deal. "Why can't we even mention our own targets?" demanded a furious Angela Merkel. Australia's prime minister, Kevin Rudd, was annoyed enough to bang his microphone. Brazil's representative too pointed out the illogicality of China's position. Why should rich countries not announce even this unilateral cut? The Chinese delegate said no, and I watched, aghast, as Merkel threw up her hands in despair and conceded the point. Now we know why – because China bet, correctly, that Obama would get the blame for the Copenhagen accord's lack of ambition.

China, backed at times by India, then proceeded to take out all the numbers that mattered. A 2020 peaking year in global emissions, essential to restrain temperatures to 2C, was removed and replaced by woolly language suggesting that emissions should peak "as soon as possible". The long-term target, of global 50% cuts by 2050, was also excised. No one else, perhaps with the exceptions of India and Saudi Arabia, wanted this to happen. I am certain that had the Chinese not been in the room, we would have left Copenhagen with a deal that had environmentalists popping champagne corks popping in every corner of the world.

Strong position

So how did China manage to pull off this coup? First, it was in an extremely strong negotiating position. China didn't need a deal. As one developing country foreign minister said to me: "The Athenians had nothing to offer to the Spartans." On the other hand, western leaders in particular – but also presidents Lula of Brazil, Zuma of South Africa, Calderón of Mexico and many others – were desperate for a positive outcome. Obama needed a strong deal perhaps more than anyone. The US had confirmed the offer of $100bn to developing countries for adaptation, put serious cuts on the table for the first time (17% below 2005 levels by 2020), and was obviously prepared to up its offer.

Above all, Obama needed to be able to demonstrate to the Senate that he could deliver China in any global climate regulation framework, so conservative senators could not argue that US carbon cuts would further advantage Chinese industry. With midterm elections looming, Obama and his staff also knew that Copenhagen would be probably their only opportunity to go to climate change talks with a strong mandate. This further strengthened China's negotiating hand, as did the complete lack of civil society political pressure on either China or India. Campaign groups never blame developing countries for failure; this is an iron rule that is never broken. The Indians, in particular, have become past masters at co-opting the language of equity ("equal rights to the atmosphere") in the service of planetary suicide – and leftish campaigners and commentators are hoist with their own petard.

With the deal gutted, the heads of state session concluded with a final battle as the Chinese delegate insisted on removing the 1.5C target so beloved of the small island states and low-lying nations who have most to lose from rising seas. President Nasheed of the Maldives, supported by Brown, fought valiantly to save this crucial number. "How can you ask my country to go extinct?" demanded Nasheed. The Chinese delegate feigned great offence – and the number stayed, but surrounded by language which makes it all but meaningless. The deed was done.

China's game

All this raises the question: what is China's game? Why did China, in the words of a UK-based analyst who also spent hours in heads of state meetings, "not only reject targets for itself, but also refuse to allow any other country to take on binding targets?" The analyst, who has attended climate conferences for more than 15 years, concludes that China wants to weaken the climate regulation regime now "in order to avoid the risk that it might be called on to be more ambitious in a few years' time".

This does not mean China is not serious about global warming. It is strong in both the wind and solar industries. But China's growth, and growing global political and economic dominance, is based largely on cheap coal. China knows it is becoming an uncontested superpower; indeed its newfound muscular confidence was on striking display in Copenhagen. Its coal-based economy doubles every decade, and its power increases commensurately. Its leadership will not alter this magic formula unless they absolutely have to.

Copenhagen was much worse than just another bad deal, because it illustrated a profound shift in global geopolitics. This is fast becoming China's century, yet its leadership has displayed that multilateral environmental governance is not only not a priority, but is viewed as a hindrance to the new superpower's freedom of action. I left Copenhagen more despondent than I have felt in a long time. After all the hope and all the hype, the mobilisation of thousands, a wave of optimism crashed against the rock of global power politics, fell back, and drained away.

[Source]

And I think one of the comments nailed it on the head:
quote:
mofo1
22 Dec 2009, 8:26PM


All sounds very credible and interesting read. Put yourself in China's shoes - the West has produced 90% of all the carbon perhaps since Industrial Revolution? Now when China is becoming rich, suddenly carbon production is out. Not only that - the reason they are producing so much carbon is because we shipped out our manufacturing out there because their labour costs are so cheap.
You can see their point.

Personally I have never had much faith in politicians delivering any treaties around this, and they havent let me down so far.

I suggest taking your own grass roots actions and at least able to look yourself in the mirror in the morning. After all we all create the demand for chinese goods, and flights and SUVs and meat etc.

This is precisely what worries me the most about non-democratic states. Sure, the people can still exert pressure on them, but as long as their appease the critics with a strong economy, isn't that what really matters to keep their power unchecked?


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Old Post Jan-04-2010 00:52  Brazil
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Chryz707
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Here and there

Lira, Thanks for sharing this great read! China doenst want it momentum to be halted! That fact that we all sit by idle it a travesty! Shame on us all! The future will show how Countries and Corporate Greed has failed us!


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Old Post Jan-04-2010 10:06  Europe
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