By Eoghan Sweeney (Chief Football Writer) <~~notice, itz not a korean, so don't give me that "bias" crap either.

It has taken the form of a trial. Media, coaches and players, generally from countries whose teams are now on their summer holidays, arm themselves with statistics that add up to ``evidence'' proving there is a conspiracy by South Korea.

Taken at face value, the figures seem compelling. Portugal had two red cards against the home side. Italy had one. Italy and Spain had ``goals'' disallowed. Clear proof of favoritism --or is it?

Take these incidents one by one, rather than as a single lump, and the picture is somewhat different.

Portugal did indeed have two players sent off. Both were thoroughly deserved. Joao Pinto's airborne, two-footed lunge from behind on Park Ji-Sung was one of the worst fouls of the entire tournament. Beto received two yellow cards, both for blatantly taking down a player who had beaten him - a clearly bookable offense.

Football has rules for a reason, and when a team runs foul of them, who is to blame? Rather than showing bias, the referee was applying those rules.

Francesco Totti could consider himself unlucky for his second yellow card. Unlucky, but not dreadfully sinned against. There was contact when the Italian forward went down under a clean tackle, Song Chong-gug getting a foot in and taking the ball away, but the melodramatic appeals for a penalty that may have decided the game hardly helped his case.

The next statistic is that Italy had a goal disallowed, and Spain, two.

Again, there were poor decisions. Tommasi appeared to be onside in the South Korea-Italy match, and the ball was clearly still in play when Spain's Joaquin crossed for Morientes.

To call these ``disallowed goals,'' however, ignores the fact that Lee Woon-Jae, one of the tournament's BEST goalkeepers, made no attempt to save.

Indeed, a biased referee would have been well within his rights to book Tommasi for running on and putting the ball in the net after the whistle had gone and the South Koreans had stopped playing.

The assertion on one of the world's most influential football websites that ``Spain were robbed of a golden-goal winner'' is a shameful overstatement of the reality of the situation, and it is interesting that having originally said that Fernando Morientes had headed home ``with goalkeeper Lee Woon-jae stranded,'' this latter part was later removed, presumably after someone had paid more attention to the replay.

Two poor decisions, certainly, but ``two goals disallowed'' sounds a tad exaggerated.

Spain did have one disallowed in the second half, but again replays show a clear foul.

Just as disturbing as this skewed use of statistics is the tendency to take a one-sided view.

South Korea have benefited from poor refereeing decisions. That is a simple fact. Just as simple is that so have other teams. Furthermore, South Korea have also suffered from poor decisions.

Quite how Spanish midfielder Romero escaped unpunished for two scandalous tackles is mystifying. Had Kim Nam-il gone in, studs up, into a Spanish player's shin, ending his involvement in the game, and got off scot-free, rather than vice-versa, it would no doubt have been cited as further proof of a ``fix." How would things have turned out if Spain had been down to 10 men from the 13th minute on?

Joaquin had a marvelous match, but won such a number of dubious free-kicks that one had to wonder whether the referee had his mind partly on the disgraceful public intervention by Sepp Blatter the day before. Is the FIFA chief so naive as to think fair play could be served by publicly supporting Italy, a team who were claiming to have been robbed by South Korea and the officials?

Ironically, South Korea were among the first victims the last time FIFA put pressure on referees, Ha Seok-ju getting red-carded against Mexico in 1998 for a tackle from behind shortly after the governing body had ordered a clampdown and thrown players and officials into confusion.

Watching the quarterfinal, Ha must have been bemused to see Romero clatter into Song Chong-gug in identical fashion in the second half and escape without even a booking.

Italian players twice got the benefit of the doubt when swinging the arm into players' faces in a manner that in the English Premier League at least is generally punished with red. Totti got yellow for felling Kim Nam-il; Vieri broke Kim Nam-il's nose without any repercussions.

Anyone looking at statistics might be interested to note that South Korea have conceded more free-kicks than any other team in the World Cup. It would take some stretch of the imagination to see them as being among the tournament's dirtier sides.

Of course, it is fascinating to have conspiracy stories flying around. It also helps fallen giants deflect responsibility for their OWN shortcomings. We didn't really lose; we were robbed. It is also misleading, and detracts from the achievements of a team who have worked their socks off to get to where they are.




AMEN

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DisBejS
By Eoghan Sweeney (Chief Football Writer) <~~notice, itz not a korean, so don't give me that "bias" crap either.






The next statistic is that Italy had a goal disallowed, and Spain, two.

Again, there were poor decisions. Tommasi appeared to be onside in the South Korea-Italy match, and the ball was clearly still in play when Spain's Joaquin crossed for Morientes.

To call these ``disallowed goals,'' however, ignores the fact that Lee Woon-Jae, one of the tournament's BEST goalkeepers, made no attempt to save.

Indeed, a biased referee would have been well within his rights to book Tommasi for running on and putting the ball in the net after the whistle had gone and the South Koreans had stopped playing.

The assertion on one of the world's most influential football websites that ``Spain were robbed of a golden-goal winner'' is a shameful overstatement of the reality of the situation, and it is interesting that having originally said that Fernando Morientes had headed home ``with goalkeeper Lee Woon-jae stranded,'' this latter part was later removed, presumably after someone had paid more attention to the replay.

Two poor decisions, certainly, but ``two goals disallowed'' sounds a tad exaggerated.


THANK YOU, finally someone mentions about the "two gaols disallowed" i mean if someone who hasnt seen the game reads the articles out there they would think that the ref pulled the flag up AFTER the goal. I mean the goal tender didnt even bother to block and the arrogant players would still hit it in even after the whistle, and if u saw the game really close, to those who say they worship soccer, u would see, dont know his name, hand motion to the ref "i cant hear cuz of the crowd"...as a excuse for shooting after the whistle had been blown

quote:

Originally posted by DisBejS By Eoghan Sweeney (Chief Football Writer) <~~notice, itz not a korean, so don't give me that "bias" crap either. It has taken the form of a trial. Media, coaches and players, generally from countries whose teams are now on their summer holidays, arm themselves with statistics that add up to ``evidence'' proving there is a conspiracy by South Korea. Taken at face value, the figures seem compelling. Portugal had two red cards against the home side. Italy had one. Italy and Spain had ``goals'' disallowed. Clear proof of favoritism --or is it? Take these incidents one by one, rather than as a single lump, and the picture is somewhat different. Portugal did indeed have two players sent off. Both were thoroughly deserved. Joao Pinto's airborne, two-footed lunge from behind on Park Ji-Sung was one of the worst fouls of the entire tournament. Beto received two yellow cards, both for blatantly taking down a player who had beaten him - a clearly bookable offense. Football has rules for a reason, and when a team runs foul of them, who is to blame? Rather than showing bias, the referee was applying those rules. Francesco Totti could consider himself unlucky for his second yellow card. Unlucky, but not dreadfully sinned against. There was contact when the Italian forward went down under a clean tackle, Song Chong-gug getting a foot in and taking the ball away, but the melodramatic appeals for a penalty that may have decided the game hardly helped his case. The next statistic is that Italy had a goal disallowed, and Spain, two. Again, there were poor decisions. Tommasi appeared to be onside in the South Korea-Italy match, and the ball was clearly still in play when Spain's Joaquin crossed for Morientes. To call these ``disallowed goals,'' however, ignores the fact that Lee Woon-Jae, one of the tournament's BEST goalkeepers, made no attempt to save. Indeed, a biased referee would have been well within his rights to book Tommasi for running on and putting the ball in the net after the whistle had gone and the South Koreans had stopped playing. The assertion on one of the world's most influential football websites that ``Spain were robbed of a golden-goal winner'' is a shameful overstatement of the reality of the situation, and it is interesting that having originally said that Fernando Morientes had headed home ``with goalkeeper Lee Woon-jae stranded,'' this latter part was later removed, presumably after someone had paid more attention to the replay. Two poor decisions, certainly, but ``two goals disallowed'' sounds a tad exaggerated. Spain did have one disallowed in the second half, but again replays show a clear foul. Just as disturbing as this skewed use of statistics is the tendency to take a one-sided view. South Korea have benefited from poor refereeing decisions. That is a simple fact. Just as simple is that so have other teams. Furthermore, South Korea have also suffered from poor decisions. Quite how Spanish midfielder Romero escaped unpunished for two scandalous tackles is mystifying. Had Kim Nam-il gone in, studs up, into a Spanish player's shin, ending his involvement in the game, and got off scot-free, rather than vice-versa, it would no doubt have been cited as further proof of a ``fix." How would things have turned out if Spain had been down to 10 men from the 13th minute on? Joaquin had a marvelous match, but won such a number of dubious free-kicks that one had to wonder whether the referee had his mind partly on the disgraceful public intervention by Sepp Blatter the day before. Is the FIFA chief so naive as to think fair play could be served by publicly supporting Italy, a team who were claiming to have been robbed by South Korea and the officials? Ironically, South Korea were among the first victims the last time FIFA put pressure on referees, Ha Seok-ju getting red-carded against Mexico in 1998 for a tackle from behind shortly after the governing body had ordered a clampdown and thrown players and officials into confusion. Watching the quarterfinal, Ha must have been bemused to see Romero clatter into Song Chong-gug in identical fashion in the second half and escape without even a booking. Italian players twice got the benefit of the doubt when swinging the arm into players' faces in a manner that in the English Premier League at least is generally punished with red. Totti got yellow for felling Kim Nam-il; Vieri broke Kim Nam-il's nose without any repercussions. Anyone looking at statistics might be interested to note that South Korea have conceded more free-kicks than any other team in the World Cup. It would take some stretch of the imagination to see them as being among the tournament's dirtier sides. Of course, it is fascinating to have conspiracy stories flying around. It also helps fallen giants deflect responsibility for their OWN shortcomings. We didn't really lose; we were robbed. It is also misleading, and detracts from the achievements of a team who have worked their socks off to get to where they are. AMEN

Source??

source?
i don't know the source, i took the article from another forum that i goto...
but is it important?
an article is an article..

the source is not important. i agree with everything thats been said.

thanks for posting this article

Sorry to burst your bubble guys, but that article was definately biased. First of all, when talking statistics, AT LEAST INCLUDE ALL OF THEM. There's other stuff going on here... for example croatia vs. italy... there is no doubt in ANYONE'S mind (even croatians!) that that game was fixed. How many PERFECTLY LEGAL goals were disallowed? And by perfectly legal I mean perfectly legal... And it's not a coincidence that everyone knew Italy would possibly be playing Korea if Italy advanced. But of course, that issue is irrelevant, isn't it? Yeah, because the purpose of the article was to make Korea look good.

And I particularly like the author's style of trying to make korea look good by making italy and spain look bad. Ignorant people don't notice these things... but, I'm not ignorant, and I picked up on a couple of issues that you obviosly didn't.

First of all, Totti... he did not deserve that second yellow card. He got hit and he fell, that's undisputable. How does the author defend the ref's call? He says that Italy deserved it because they asked for a penalty. Yeah fucking right.

And then, about Italy's one of many disallowed goals: He admits it was a poor decision! But then he tries to say Italy deserved it because they kept on playing after the whistle? Yeah, italians are to blame. I find it funny how the author ignores the real issue: WHY THE WHISTLE WAS BLOWN IN THE FIRST PLACE.

And I love the way he justifies the removal of the spanish goals. Oh wait, he only attempted to justify one of them.

And he seems to think that because Korea gives up free kicks it means there obviously wasn't any referee bias? Please, that was done intentionally to try and cover up the whole issue here. But obviosly, it didn't work.

And the best is how he talks about 1998. First of all, tackling from behind is a red card. I don't know what he's getting at? Because Korea got a red card THAT THEY DESERVED 4 years ago, it means that they aren't cheating today? Please... someone teach this author how to prove a point. I'd love to see the opposing lawyer RIP THAT UP in court. Times were different back then... most notably, the korean government wasn't lining the fifa official's pockets with millions of dollars.

And to the genious that thinks the writer isn't biased... HE IS!!!!! Just b/c he isn't korean means shit. He's supposedly the chief football writer... so obviously HE IS GOING TO DEFEND FOOTBALL AND FIFA. And who knows, he may even be on fifa's "secret" paycheck.

hey buddy, it is you who is biased

quote:

Originally posted by Gourhellyea hey buddy, it is you who is biased

of course i'm biased, but that's irrelevant... it doesn't change the fact that what I wrote is correct. The person who wrote that article was also biased... that didn't stop you from saying "thanks for posting this article." The point is that I made some good points in what I wrote... obviously you know what I wrote is true because "hey buddy, it is you who is biased" is your best comeback... HAHAHA

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Russo Sorry to burst your bubble guys, but that article was definately biased. First of all, when talking statistics, AT LEAST INCLUDE ALL OF THEM. There's other stuff going on here... for example croatia vs. italy... there is no doubt in ANYONE'S mind (even croatians!) that that game was fixed.

not in my mind. a few bad calls but i see this shit happen all the time watching my sports and we have VIDEO REPLAY for the refs to use. still i do not believe the game was fixed so that the italians would lose. its just incompetence by the referees which fifa has already admitted to.

quote:

How many PERFECTLY LEGAL goals were disallowed? And by perfectly legal I mean perfectly legal... And it's not a coincidence that everyone knew Italy would possibly be playing Korea if Italy advanced. But of course, that issue is irrelevant, isn't it? Yeah, because the purpose of the article was to make Korea look good.

and whats the purpose of your post? to make italy look good? :rollseyes

quote:

And I particularly like the author's style of trying to make korea look good by making italy and spain look bad. Ignorant people don't notice these things... but, I'm not ignorant, and I picked up on a couple of issues that you obviosly didn't.

yes and we certainly like your style of putting korea down to make italy look good.

quote:

First of all, Totti... he did not deserve that second yellow card. He got hit and he fell, that's undisputable. How does the author defend the ref's call? He says that Italy deserved it because they asked for a penalty. Yeah fucking right.

if you hadn't noticed already, fifa is trying to crack down on fake injuries or faked out plays. although IMO, the yellow card was a bit harsh considering the collision that was involved but it was also the refs call to think that totti was faking the play to get a PK. say what you will, and yes IMO it is a mistake by the ref or maybe not but saying that there is something thats related to a conspiracy is outrageous. the referee only has a certain amount of time before making the call. sometimes they will fuck up. get over it.

quote:

And then, about Italy's one of many disallowed goals: He admits it was a poor decision! But then he tries to say Italy deserved it because they kept on playing after the whistle? Yeah, italians are to blame. I find it funny how the author ignores the real issue: WHY THE WHISTLE WAS BLOWN IN THE FIRST PLACE.

if the whistle had blown you ARE SUPPOSED TO STOP PLAYING. doesn't matter if its the right call or not. you hear the whistle you stop moving. so he put the ball into the unguarded net after the whistle blew. OH MY. what a goal that was. it never happened. the play has stopped hence there IS no goal to be disallowed. this is sooooooo blown way out of proportion. its a fucked up "offside" call not a fucked up "disallowed goal" there is a huge difference between the two. also you aren't very observant either. lee woon jae made no attempt, i repeat, NO ATTEMPT TO SAVE.

quote:

And I love the way he justifies the removal of the spanish goals. Oh wait, he only attempted to justify one of them.

he doesn't have to justify anything. he already said some were blown calls and some were not even attempted by the korea goalkeeper to make a save.

quote:

And he seems to think that because Korea gives up free kicks it means there obviously wasn't any referee bias? Please, that was done intentionally to try and cover up the whole issue here. But obviosly, it didn't work.

uh huh...sounds like you work for fifa or something. you seem to know everything thats going on. you seem to know their plans. hey can you tell me who will win the world cup in 2006? cuz i wanna make some big bucks when it happens again in 4 years. please stop speculating this bullshit with absolutely no proof whatsoever. the fact that korea conceded more free kicks just goes to show that the calls aren't as lopsided as all of you think.

quote:

And the best is how he talks about 1998. First of all, tackling from behind is a red card. I don't know what he's getting at? Because Korea got a red card THAT THEY DESERVED 4 years ago, it means that they aren't cheating today? Please... someone teach this author how to prove a point. I'd love to see the opposing lawyer RIP THAT UP in court. Times were different back then... most notably, the korean government wasn't lining the fifa official's pockets with millions of dollars.

you know sometimes blindly accusing people can also get you into trouble with the law. this has nothing to do with soccer or your post but i'd thought i'd point it out.

quote:

And to the genious that thinks the writer isn't biased... HE IS!!!!! Just b/c he isn't korean means shit. He's supposedly the chief football writer... so obviously HE IS GOING TO DEFEND FOOTBALL AND FIFA. And who knows, he may even be on fifa's "secret" paycheck.

the writer is stating his opinion on the matter. of course its biased just as your post was and just as my post was. atleast his point of view though, was more likely from a neutral standpoint than yours michael.

you are obviously not seeing things from a different perspective considering that you are italian or atleast rooting for them. you only see what could have been if they made the right call here or a good call there.

you cannot see the fact that vieri had a perfectly good opportunity to put korea out of its misery with one good tap into a WIDE ASS OPEN net with less than 5 minutes to go. italy didn't make good on their chances and korea burned them. what more can you say? bad calls will always be a part of the game, you can't expect everything to be perfect. the good teams however, will play through it and win the ugly ones.

quote:

Italian players twice got the benefit of the doubt when swinging the arm into players' faces in a manner that in the English Premier League at least is generally punished with red. Totti got yellow for felling Kim Nam-il; Vieri broke Kim Nam-il's nose without any repercussions.

how do you explain this one michael? its taken from the article which you haven't touched on in your post. obviously someone has also left out some facts/stats.


anyway there are some things that i agree with you though.

1. there has been absolutely shitty refereeing this year.
2. totti does not deserve a yellow card for that incident.

but there are also things which i do not believe is true and i do not believe that you would know whats true and whats not either. i don't think you can read the refs mind and know whether he was paid to make this call or did he just screw up. so instead of making false accusations and getting pissed over something that will NEVER change, just go and enjoy whats left of the shitty tournament.

AMEN

Nice

Just one thing i'd like to point out: I'm not upset about the korea vs. italy game (although I was pissed)... Italy definately should have won that game, but it was their own fault they missed a million perfect chances.

But I still think something fishy is going on.

One thing that upset me is FIFA's remarks about using video replays. They pretty much said, "yeah, there's been a ton of mistakes, but we don't care." How can they not care that these "mistakes" effect the outcome of the whole tournament? It doesn't make any sense to me why they wouldn't want video replay. They then went on to say if they did incorporate video replay in the late future it would only be to check if the ball passed the goal line. Wow....

About that offside call... I don't think it's a stretch to call it a disallowed goal because korea's goaltender had absolutely no chance at all. But whatever, enough about that game.

"the fact that korea conceded more free kicks just goes to show that the calls aren't as lopsided as all of you think."

Once again, I think that was done intentionally to make people believe the calls weren't lopsided.

"you know sometimes blindly accusing people can also get you into trouble with the law. this has nothing to do with soccer or your post but i'd thought i'd point it out."

Thanks for the heads-up. Yeah, FIFA can sue me for libel. But FIFA's already being sued for this worldcup fiasco so I think they're busy enough trying to save their own ass.

"how do you explain this one michael? its taken from the article which you haven't touched on in your post. obviously someone has also left out some facts/stats."

Again, that could have been done intentionally, as with the free kick issue. But it's all speculation, I agree.

"so instead of making false accusations and getting pissed over something that will NEVER change..."

You don't know if the accusations are false. They could be, but I think there is a big chance they aren't. Anyways, I'm not pissed though, I just like to give my opinion.

The bottom line is that we don't know what happened and we probably will never know. But at least admit the possibility that there has been some cheating going on... I personally think that it's unreasonable for you to think that there was no possibility that the tournament was rigged.

ok fair enough, i guess i wasn't right thinking that there isn't any possibility of it being corrupt either BUT i still believe chances are pretty slim of it happening. it is afterall operated by a "professional" organization. to me, that sounds like someone telling me the NBA or the NHL is also corrupt. i mean come on, i really don't believe in that.

about fifa not wanting video replay, the only reason i can think of for them not to use it is that they don't know how they would deal with the clock. should they stop the clock entirely or should they add it on to injury time etc...? then again that is really a small issue when video replay can fix these bigger problems. i really hope they will use video replay some day and not just for the ball crossing the goal line. having video replay has helped the NHL and the NFL a lot in making the right calls. soon the NBA will also have it i think. its time for FIFA to start seriously consider putting this feature into its arsenal.

anyway no hard feelings. sometimes thats just the way sports is. you win some you lose some and thats why they do this every 4 years. so the losing nations can regroup and try again next time around and hope the refs improve on their decision making ability.

PS - for whatever reason, i thought i would be getting a hostile reply but i'm glad you didn't find my post offensive.