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Nice job!


I have to laugh at the arts funding comment. We have a huge deficit, coming out of a recession but hey whats a billion dollars for arts right?

Who needs things like sustainable jobs, infrastructure and debt repayment when we can have arts projects?

Air transport? ahhhh who needs that???? Horse and mule would be an artsier form of transport!

I'm all for our politicians participating in everything from galas to charitable functions to social events...but given Harper's comments on galas and lack of similar appearances in the past, this seems to be political opportunism at its finest

it should almost have to be declared under election spending rules, lol!

quote:

Originally posted by ******** Billion dollar american air transit... read about what you are talking about before you attack. The money was flushed down the toilet, and the spendings had no tactical benefit for the mission at hand. horse and mule would be more cost effective its not like canada should be in a rush to be giving all our surplus weapons to the afghans anyway.. how many people do you need to fight a few hundred "terrorists" surely 100,000 soilders is enough without hugely wasteful flights of junk when a leased aircraft would do fine. Canada has no ongoing need for them, much like the "artic ice breakers, for all the mineral extraction that was sold to us companies. The point is the purchases wern't cost effective, and canada would get far more out of arts spending here in Canada then spending money to support a war that does little anything for canada, it is an american war - that nato tagged along for, surely the US's 70,000 troops can shoot school children on their own without the need for canada to police people who's religion is "wrong" and thus can't be legal. http://www.airliners.net/aviation-f...ead.main/61167/ You know how fast these would be scrap in a real war. There goes a quarter of the annual defence spending down the drain

So the war in afghanistan is "america's war"? Funny but last i checked it was a NATO mission. We are part of NATO as is the US and most of Europe. We are fulfilling the requirments of that alliance. The alliance that kept us from becoming russian in the cold war and that will come save our ass if we ever get attacked by anyone.

Also, the taliban were actively aiding and abetting bin laden. Dont confuse afghanistan with the iraq blunder which i agree was not a war that should have been started. NATO went into afghanistan to remove the taliban and destabilize bin laden and for the most part it worked.

Oh and lets talk about the political support for afghanistan. The LIBERAL government of canada rightly sent our troops into the mission. The LIBERAL government also committed us to combat roles just before they lost power in 2005. The conservatives have simply honoured the role that the liberals put us in.

Ignatieff supports the war in afghanistan too. Well he did, before it was politically inconvenient to do so.

Anyone who thinks that terrorism is only a threat to americans is living in a dream world. We are VERY lucky it hasnt happened here. Look at the Toronto 18 and how close we came to serious devistation in our own country!!!

And your comment about policing religion is very ignorant. This has little to do with religion. Extremists use religion as a shield to excuse their actions which have more to do with power, politics and money. This can be said of extremists in ANY religion.

I dont think the canadian or US government and military is actively converting muslims in afghanistan. If anything they are making possible the ability of muslim girls to go to school and muslim women to get jobs.

Canada once had a proud standing army, air force and one of the strongest navys in the world. We have a proud military heritage that saved us in 2 world wars amongst others. We were also the lead force that liberated Holland from the Germans and a large force on the front lines in France in both world wars. Unfortunately over the last 30 years our military has become a joke thanks mostly to trudeau. We are spending money on our military just to meet the MINIMUM requirements of being a member of NATO. Kind of sad really.

Last edited by Jayx1 on Oct-05-2009 at 04:42

No wonder people laugh at Canada.

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quote:

Originally posted by ******** I may not continue this discussion if you dispute this fact. Due to the absurdity of discusion with someone speaking on totally inane and non-sensical grounds. I might as well be talking about geese and beavers and the adverse effects of gasoline on the drinking water supply and early puberty and the effect on feminization of the male population by increasing estrogen counts in the tap water supply. Hopefully you get my point.

I do. Your point is that if anyone disagrees with you then they are wrong and ignorant because your point of view is the only one that is correct.

Iraq was "america's war". Afghanistan is not.

quote:

Sorry but King Omar offered to turn Osama over to Pakistan to which the US said.. that's not good enough.

Source?

quote:

Yet Afghanistan only had official diplomatic ties with around 3 countries - one of which was Pakistan - one of which was not the USA. This whole war as justified by the unwillingness to turn Osama over for justice is total BS. This whole war was a sick joke by people in the USDoD, and little more, as some warped game for the US state department and long term strategic interests - it is little doubt by measures such as buy America that canada is a strip mine waiting to happen and little more in terms of US interests, so I fail to see how this is anything but an American war

What was that about talking about the wear an tear of a chickens ass vs the rate of egg production?

PS: Canada is exempt from "Buy America" as of a few days ago thanks to Harper's trip to the US a few weeks ago.

quote:

- but on terms of the cost and lives of Canadians being given - what is the interest for Canada in terms of actual effect?

Hmmmmmm i guess you didnt understand or read my last post. Whats in it for us?

a) fulfilling our duty to NATO, the alliance that protects us due to our weak ass military being insufficient on its own.

b) preventing a failed state from being a haven to those who wish to harm us. Us includes Canada.

c) Giving choice back to the people of afghanistan rather than having them live under a cruel dictatorship

Now there are 2 things that went wrong here from what i can see. First the US F'd up by invading Iraq when they should have focused on Afghanistan. Perhaps then we would have had better results by now. Second, they should have never allowed the taliban to exist whether it was in our interests or not.

quote:

Wouldn't he of been destabalized by sending him to pakistan where some deltaforce could abduct him or a deal of been cut with Musharif for "an accident to happen"?

Id be very surprised to see pakistan allowing US forces into its territory. They are already angry about the drone attacks as of late. Musharif is no ally of the US.

quote:

It was fear mongering and Canada like many of the other unconstitutional acts that occured as a result of 911 would never of been done if not for the paranoia and voiced threat from Canada's southern neighbour effectively holding the world hostage for their and only their objective of global dominance

Actually none of this would have happened had Sept 11 not occurred.

quote:

and removing potential threats to US security - due to illegal acts of agression by the CIA and other state department and DoD groups - activities that are acts of war and illegal - but activities the US conducts, even today. Then you wonder why these "extremists" get all upset - maybe it is because their rights, and their nations are being attacked illegally and counter their souveriegn and constitutional rights.

So basically you are defending their actions based on their conceived victimization but attacking our actions that are based on the same conceived victimization.

Since the UN, NATO and most of the world legally sanctioned the invasion of Afghanistan, it was not illegal. Attacking the Pentagon and the World Trade Centre are. Second, by defending the actions of these extremists you are exhibiting very treasonous beliefs.

quote:

The US goes as far as actually blackmailing and bribing other countries for "immunity from prosecution" for otherwise illegal acts. (note the US is a known state that tortures people)

If in fact the US does "torture" people, im pretty sure they dont cut their heads off on video with a sword or blow their own people up in the name of god. Id take waterboarding over that any day.

quote:

Well why did the US veto Iraq's constitution? Because it included sharia law - little fact but sharia is law, but why was it vetoed by the occupying forces? Why is the US killing priests in these countries - what happened to the sanctity and inviolability of religious sites - that were otherwise attacked by aircraft and attack helicopters and bombed?

As i said, dont confuse Iraq with Afghanistan. They are two VERY different wars. And Canada was not in Iraq.

As for sharia. Again it uses religion as a front for political power. Sharia law is not enshrined in the Quran. Its a manifestation of a political theorocratic ideal. Dont confuse religion with politics.

quote:

It is illegal to change their civil law - it is against international laws of occupation. Yet they are vetoing and killing these people. Illegally - a war crime. See it.

Great, so thats your opinion on Iraq. We were talking about Afghanistan. And for the record, i wholeheartedly disagree with this statement about Iraq even though i disagree with the iraq war.

quote:

Originally posted by dgame No wonder people laugh at Canada.

And im betting had it been Obama everyone would be praising how awesome it is that he has a sense of humour about him.

Give me a break.

Unfortunately it may take a full scale terrorist attack on Canada for a lot of people to actually get it.

I really hope not though.

As infuriating as it is to listen to lefty bleeding hearts defend our enemies, id rather have that then to have something terrible actually happen here which the bleeding hearts might actually understand.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Unfortunately it may take a full scale terrorist attack on Canada for a lot of people to actually get it. I really hope not though. As infuriating as it is to listen to lefty bleeding hearts defend our enemies, id rather have that then to have something terrible actually happen here which the bleeding hearts might actually understand.

If you honestly believe that the Taliban had something to do with terrorist attacks done by Saudis, that Osama wasn't a C.I.A. affiliate and that the conflicts in the middle east can be justified by the "War on Terror" then you are the one that really needs to get it. It's funny when people talk about trying to free the afghans from such a terrible regime, quite ironic id say. I wonder why since the occupation that the cultivation of poppy fields has flourished (Something the taliban did not support and nearly eliminated).

"Implemented in 2000-2001, the Taliban's drug eradication program led to a 94 percent decline in opium cultivation. In 2001, according to UN figures, opium production had fallen to 185 tons. Immediately following the October 2001 US led invasion, production increased dramatically, regaining its historical levels.

The Vienna based UN Office on Drugs and Crime estimates that the 2006 harvest will be of the order of 6,100 tonnes, 33 times its production levels in 2001 under the Taliban government (3200 % increase in 5 years).

Cultivation in 2006 reached a record 165,000 hectares compared with 104,000 in 2005 and 7,606 in 2001 under the Taliban"

This isn't about Terrorists. This isn't about Iran with Nukes. This isn't about freeing people from a corrupt regime. Open your eyes people.

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Last edited by shevchenko135 on Oct-05-2009 at 20:17

Wow, the lunatic left is out in full force today. Don't you people have jobs? Oh wait, I forgot, you're waiting for government handouts.

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quote:

Originally posted by shevchenko135 If you honestly believe that the Taliban had something to do with terrorist attacks done by Saudis, that Osama wasn't a C.I.A. affiliate and that the conflicts in the middle east can be justified by the "War on Terror" then you are the one that really needs to get it. It's funny when people talk about trying to free the afghans from such a terrible regime, quite ironic id say. I wonder why since the occupation that the cultivation of poppy fields has flourished (Something the taliban did not support and nearly eliminated). "Implemented in 2000-2001, the Taliban's drug eradication program led to a 94 percent decline in opium cultivation. In 2001, according to UN figures, opium production had fallen to 185 tons. Immediately following the October 2001 US led invasion, production increased dramatically, regaining its historical levels. The Vienna based UN Office on Drugs and Crime estimates that the 2006 harvest will be of the order of 6,100 tonnes, 33 times its production levels in 2001 under the Taliban government (3200 % increase in 5 years). Cultivation in 2006 reached a record 165,000 hectares compared with 104,000 in 2005 and 7,606 in 2001 under the Taliban" This isn't about Terrorists. This isn't about Iran with Nukes. This isn't about freeing people from a corrupt regime. Open your eyes people.

So oppressive regimes are OK since they eradicate the drug trade? WOW Seriously??? I cant even begin to fathom the kind of thinking behind that.

Afghanistan is a response to sept 11. Iraq is a different story. But that should have no relevance to this thread since we didnt go to iraq in the first place.