quote:

You talked quite a bit about sound quality when you were doing interviews around your Fabric CD. Do you think that things have gotten better since then? No. I think the development is going in the opposite direction because everyone is making tracks in programs like Ableton, which has an OK sound engine. When I started making music 20 years ago, you had to at least buy a mixer, then some synthesizers, a drum machine—which is the best quality possible of a sampled drum. There was a pureness of the source of the music. It was analog, direct. Now you have millions of sources, millions of programs and especially these few programs like Reaktor or Ableton that are complete. They have all of these virtual instruments that are calculated by a computer, and you have a certain space where you have to put everything. And when you want to leave this space, you have to live with compromises, the compromises of digital mixes and recordings. Everyone at the moment is thinking these are good things. Especially at the moment with labels disappearing and all of the people that once helped decide whether a record is coming out or not not—the label manager, the friend of the label, the designer—are going away. People are finding it easy to publish something without any controls. And this is the problem with the internet in general. There is so much information, and no one knows if it's true or not. It's just there. It's an information monster.

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Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

I think the number of low-quality productions that have seen release because of the accessibility of the internet is countered enough by the huge amount of excellent music uploaded by relatively unknown producers that wouldn't otherwise get vinyl releases if that was all that was available.

I remember reading that there's a psychological response to information depending on the media it's presented on. Music in the form of digital downloads are seen to have less personal "value" than physical representations of the same thing, ie CDs or vinyls. That might explain some of the negative response to the vast amount of internet-hosted music.

Lack of quality control? Maybe. I like the way things are today though. It makes sense that Villalobos would hate the new system because he gets flooded with crap since there are many labels now, and distribution is cheap.

I'm not a superstar DJ/Producer like Villalobos is. I get zero promos. I'm just a dance music fan. From my perspective, this internet era of dance music really helps me. It makes things harder for guys like Villalobos to find music though.

In the vinyl days, DJs recieved trash records. trash records are always pressed, it's a law of physics. Drop an apple, it'll fall to the ground. Drop a record, there's a chance that it's going to be crap. The law of bad records. This law, through the discovery of the interwebs has transformed into "the law of bad mp3s/wavs"

Now imagine getting flooded with vinyl back in the day, most of which you will use as a coaster for your beer. I imagine the number of songs being submitted to a DJ like Villalobos has increased many times over because all you need is a computer to make a song. From his frame of reference, the crap is magnified and sticks out. At least with vinyl you get a frisbee, and a coaster. What do you get with digital? Oh, drag and drop to recycle bin! YAY.

I remember going into Skills DJ Workshop (RIP) in Berkeley here in California. I had to get my ass to the store which costs time and money. It was like $12 dollars a record. You have to be picky with what you choose. It also takes time to pick a record, listen to it, and put it back to it's rightful place--you don't want to be an asshole customer.

Today I can click from the comfort of my own house and listen to 10 songs quickly and efficiently. The percentage of "songs i don't want" and "songs i want" are the same as before. To me anyways. So I do like this way of buying things. I'm exposed to a lot of music I normally wouldn't hear if we were stuck in vinyl. I think the internet way of buying songs is best for 99% of dance music fans who are just like me--just fans.

A bad day at work for pro DJs is shifting through tons of bad songs on Thursday--the promo listening day. A fun day for me is shifting through audiojelly, beatport, etc., which isn't a job for me, I do it any time i want since there is no "promo listening day" for me. Not a job, no pressure, no stress.

Last edited by -FSP- on Nov-02-2009 at 23:24

The shift from vinyl to digital media is directly analogous to the shift from print media to online media.

The advantage of traditional media is the steady (if imperfect) vetting of material, the quality control as you put it. The disadvantage is hegemony and cultural bias - groupthink, risk-aversion, stagnation, nepotism, fads and memes taken to cartoonish extremes and dragged on interminably.

At the moment, digital labels/releases are still very new and as a consumer it's difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff. However, I think we will eventually see the same democratic consolidation effects that we've seen with online media and sites/services like digg, reddit, and so on. That is, enterprising individuals, motivated by both profit and personal interest, will invent methods of distributed quality control, harnessing the collective voice of the internet, outsourcing to the individual, and these new services will likely turn out to be almost as good as what the labels did originally.

It will take time, but it will happen. Music distribution has gone online but it is still very "web 1.0". Once it gets its much-needed upgrade then everyone will benefit, including consumers.

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tbh I disagree with Ricardo regarding the quality of records out there, he's obviously never worked in an independent record store during the vinyl years because you wouldn't believe the sh1t that some random distribution guy used to try to palm off on us.

ONLY difference now is that the general public now hears it.

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Last edited by flutlicht junky on Nov-03-2009 at 12:04

I agree Digi - One of the reasons I decided to start a label was to try and be innovative. I do what I can do try and differentiate Olympik from other labels, but there is only so much envelope pushing one can do unless you're pioneering some great, highly popular innovation/approach.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut The shift from vinyl to digital media is directly analogous to the shift from print media to online media. The advantage of traditional media is the steady (if imperfect) vetting of material, the quality control as you put it. The disadvantage is hegemony and cultural bias - groupthink, risk-aversion, stagnation, nepotism, fads and memes taken to cartoonish extremes and dragged on interminably. At the moment, digital labels/releases are still very new and as a consumer it's difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff. However, I think we will eventually see the same democratic consolidation effects that we've seen with online media and sites/services like digg, reddit, and so on. That is, enterprising individuals, motivated by both profit and personal interest, will invent methods of distributed quality control, harnessing the collective voice of the internet, outsourcing to the individual, and these new services will likely turn out to be almost as good as what the labels did originally. It will take time, but it will happen. Music distribution has gone online but it is still very "web 1.0". Once it gets its much-needed upgrade then everyone will benefit, including consumers.

Best post I've read in months.

I think already the music industry is outsourcing to the individual for quality control. Half of the tracks I buy are on recommendation from the TA music discussion board, especially the top 10 monthly threads. usually these are the tracks that people come up to me and ask me about when I play in clubs.

I definately think that digital labels are the quality controllers now anyway. As DJs, we buy tracks on a label that we like because its an assurance of quality. We buy the tracks that are on our favourite DJ's tracklists because we assume that they'll suit our taste. I find trawling through beatport/youtube/TA/tracklists a really enjoyable experience. Its like going exploring in a jungle where you might get ambushed and eaten by anything.

And I certainly value my MP3s as much as my CDs. They're my babies. Maybe thats because I'm from a different generation, and a lot of the media that I love has always been digital, but I certainly don't see a difference. I love the music, not the media its printed on.

I didn't really understand what Villalobos was saying about space in music either. Sounded like he didn't know what he was talking about with software at all. "A certain space where you have to put everything"?

And claiming that a drum machine is the best quality possible of a sampled drum is pretty daft. Kontakt's sampling engine is far more advanced than the 12 bit samples of a drum machine. The drum machine might be more organic in terms of programming, but objectively the quality is going to be inferior. And ableton live certainly isn't a complete program, and neither is Reaktor, and neither of them have anything in common. I find it a bit hard to respect his opinion given that he doesn't seem to know the basics that most people use in music production these days.

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Well these kinds of statements where made as well about 4 years ago already. I do think it's getting better though.

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If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

I have to agree with Kitphillips, i dont know who this guy is but he sounds like a stale dinosaur who has little knowledge of music production in the digital domain!

Sure there is lots of crap out there, and this mainly comes down to the fact that pretty much anyone can produce music, create a myspace or what not and get it "out there" for the public to listen to.

However there is a hell of a lot of shit Vinyl too, just because there where physical procedures (like printing and pressing) doesnt mean that crap didnt get put out there.

I like the fact that anyone can make music, there is so much variety, good and bad, it just takes a little time and effort to plough through it all and this i can find to be a very enjoyable process.

I also have to agree that using something like Kontakt far outweighs any of the samplers of the past in sheer ability and sound and these tools will only continue to get batter.

It also sounds as if he is afraid of the internet, it being an "information monster". So what? thats whats great about it, the more information the better, if you choose to beleive EVERYTHING you read then your a tool, learn to cross reference, use your own common sense and be objective.

Music is what it is, music, wether or not you like all of it is totally objective, the point is that on the internet you can listen to it first, if you dont like it dont buy it or play it, its not being forced on you its just giving you far more choice than has ever been available in the past, and thats fantastic !

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Psy-Trance Production

Quality control as in mainstream compatability is not Quality control.

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Originally posted by SoundMagus I have to agree with Kitphillips, i dont know who this guy is but he sounds like a stale dinosaur who has little knowledge of music production in the digital domain!

He's a rather large minimal DJ. I like some of his stuff, but I'm surprised to hear how little he knows about modern production.

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