Become a part of the TranceAddict community!Frequently Asked Questions - Please read this if you haven'tSearch the forums
TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Carbon offsets (a.k.a. indulgences...)
  Last Thread   Next Thread
Share
Author
Thread    Post A Reply
Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:
Carbon offsets (a.k.a. indulgences...)

We had a discussion about carbon credits in an Al Gore thread a year or so ago and I compared that to buying indulgences from the Catholic church centuries ago...I wonder how much money the Gorester has made off of this scam so far.

quote:

November 18, 2009
Paying More for Flights Eases Guilt, Not Emissions
By ELISABETH ROSENTHAL

In 2002 Responsible Travel became one of the first travel companies to offer customers the option of buying so-called carbon offsets to counter the planet-warming emissions generated by their airline flights.

But last month Responsible Travel canceled the program, saying that while it might help travelers feel virtuous, it was not helping to reduce global emissions. In fact, company officials said, it might even encourage some people to travel or consume more.

“The carbon offset has become this magic pill, a kind of get-out-of-jail-free card,” Justin Francis, the managing director of Responsible Travel, one of the world’s largest green travel companies to embrace environmental sustainability, said in an interview. “It’s seductive to the consumer who says, ‘It’s $4 and I’m carbon-neutral, so I can fly all I want.’ ”

Offsets, he argues, are distracting people from making more significant behavioral changes, like flying less.

In theory, the purchase of carbon offsets is supposed to cancel out the emissions generated by activities like flying or heating office buildings by directing money to programs that reduce emissions elsewhere, like tree-planting in Africa or a hydropower project in Brazil. An airline passenger might volunteer to pay $5 to $40 to offset his flight, with the price linked to distance.

Offsets have played a growing role in the greening of travel because carbon dioxide emissions from airplanes are growing so quickly and there is currently no technological fix that would drastically lower them.

In the United States, dozens of hotels and airlines have embraced such programs in the last year or two. United Airlines became the latest American airline to offer one this summer. Globally, offset programs have grown into a multimillion-dollar industry.

But it has proved difficult to monitor or quantify the emissions-reducing potential of the thousands of green projects financed by customers’ payments, and there are no industrywide standards.

Responsible Travel is not the only organization that has changed its mind about the usefulness of offsets: Yahoo and the United States House of Representatives both ended trial offset-purchase programs this year, concluding that the money was better spent on improving their buildings’ energy efficiency.

Some of the world’s leading experts on the emissions issue have reviewed and rejected purchasing offsets for air travel.

“We’re always looking at it, but so far I’ve decided not to do it,” said Paul Dickenson, chief executive of the Carbon Disclosure Project, a vast nonprofit consortium of companies that have pledged to report and reduce their emissions. For one thing, he said, offsetting the emissions of a flight from London to New York would probably require an extra fee of $200 to $300, far above what any airline is now charging.

And some experts say that emissions from airline travel are simply so large that it may be impossible to offset them.

“Buying offsets is a nice idea, just like giving money to a soup kitchen is a nice idea, but that doesn’t end world hunger,” said Anja Kollmuss, a staff scientist for the Stockholm Environment Institute who is based at a branch at Tufts University.

“Buying offsets won’t solve the problem because flying around the way we do is simply unsustainable,” said Ms. Kollmuss, who has researched airline offsets.

A recent study in Britain concluded that one flight from London to Los Angeles produced more carbon dioxide per person than the average British commuter produces in a year by traveling by train, subway or car.

Airlines defend offsets, even while acknowledging that some projects have not lived up to their promises. For example, mango trees that were planted in India to offset a concert tour by the band Coldplay were found to have died a few years later.

EasyJet, one of Europe’s largest low-cost airlines, did not offer offsets until 2007 — late for a European carrier — because it was trying to figure out how to ensure the money went to the right places, said Oliver Aust, a spokesman.

It now gives passengers the option of offsetting their flight emissions by investing directly in projects that have been approved by a United Nations certification program for reducing emissions.

EasyJet, which was founded in 1995 but has vastly expanded its fleet since 2003, also uses only the newest and most fuel-efficient jets, flies full planes and packs in extra rows of seats, making its estimated emissions per passenger 28 percent lower than more established carriers on the same routes. Some airlines are experimenting with innovations that may someday reduce emissions, like using fuels made with algae rather than crude oil.

Passenger offsets purport to cancel out carbon dioxide emissions ton for ton through investments in green projects. But critics say there is no transparency about how companies measure whether that happens.

For example, many airlines offer investments in tree-planting projects because trees absorb carbon dioxide. But experts say it takes decades for trees to start fully absorbing the gas, making them a questionable offset for airplanes, which emit carbon dioxide. Ms. Kollmuss said the quality of offsets depended on the project. “But if it’s very cheap, it does raise red flags,” she said.

For Mr. Francis of Responsible Travel, the final straw came when he noticed that carbon offsets were being offered by private jet companies and helicopter tour operators, which generate very high emissions per passenger. “The message was, ‘Don’t worry, you can offset the emissions,’ ” he said. “But you don’t really need to see Sydney from the air, do you? And you can travel in a commercial airliner.”

Mr. Francis said he was not advocating an end to flying — Responsible Travel offers tours to Jordan, the Galapagos Islands and China, among other far-flung destinations — but simply more reflection on the environmental impact of such journeys.

Responsible Travel had bought its offsets through one of the best-known offset companies, ClimateCare, which was purchased last year by JP Morgan.

While acknowledging that improved, universal standards for personal airline offsets are needed, Richard Folland, a climate change and energy adviser to JP Morgan, said the offset concept had played an important role in helping to direct money to otherwise unaffordable environmental projects in poorer countries.

“The primary goal is to reduce emissions, but offsets are helpful” in managing the costs, he said, adding, “There has to be a balance struck.”

Mr. Dickenson of the nonprofit Carbon Disclosure Project said that rather than buying offsets he had sharply scaled back on flying and was instead taking trains or conducting meetings by phone or teleconference. He said that if he owned an airline, he would now be diversifying into other modes of transport.

Referring to the recent purchase of a railroad by the investor Warren Buffett, he said, “What does it tell you that the world’s most successful investor is investing in trains?”


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/18/science/earth/18offset.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=print

Old Post Nov-18-2009 12:46  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for Shakka Click here to Send Shakka a Private Message Add Shakka to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Jeezus
Suspended User



Registered: Nov 2009
Location: Denmark

This whole carbon credit thing is one big fail scheme.. its like rich countries bribing poor countries for not polluting while rich countries go on at it..

Old Post Nov-19-2009 14:58  Austria
Click Here to See the Profile for Jeezus Click here to Send Jeezus a Private Message Add Jeezus to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:

LOL Gore, you fooled 'em all (I admit this article is extremely biased).
But in light of the new "Climategate" stories, why not. On another note, fuck, this story is old! I did not realize as much. LOL BS-1.



quote:
Al Gore – The environment guru has a big house, flies in big planes… and now captains a big boat.


Gore’s message to you – Do as I say not as I do.

August 6, 2008

– by Steve Gill

Gore, the Nobel-winning self-proclaimed global prophet of green, has made a lot of money from the so-called “crisis” of global warming. He has profited from best-selling books that tout the looming climatic catastrophe, won an Academy Award for a movie about his slideshow presentation that focuses on his “sky is falling” message about a world on the brink of environmental disaster.

His business interests have been focused on the profit side of the equation when it comes to “global warming,” creating a “carbon credits” program that has put millions of dollars into the pockets of Gore and his environmental cronies. There are also financial interests benefiting from the sudden shift to the ‘environmentally friendly’ light bulbs that he has trumpeted so loudly: his friends at General Electric stand to make big money from the congressionally mandated demand for their new light bulbs.

There is no question that the alarmism and doomsday scenarios spread by Al Gore have been very, very beneficial to him personally and professionally.

But the question persists as to whether he actually buys into what he is selling. His own behavior clearly indicates that he doesn’t believe we are at a “tipping point” of worldwide environmental destruction. While he preaches that the rest of us must dramatically change our lifestyles and lower our standards of living to “save the planet” he lives by another set of rules himself.

It happens in the air, where he jets about in private planes that consume massive amounts of energy to spread his message of “conservation.”

His hypocrisy is revealed on land, where he travels in fleets of limos and SUVs to deliver speeches about the dire consequences of ignoring “man-made global warming” — and leaves the cars running throughout his entire speech in order to ensure that they will be nice and cool when he exits the building and returns to his gas-guzzling vehicles.

His supposedly “green” mansion consumes electricity that dwarfs the consumption of the typical family home.

And now, in order to complete his hypocrisy trifecta, Al Gore may now be extending his excessive consumption to the water as well. In an amazing display of conspicuous consumption, even for Al Gore, his new 100-foot houseboat that docks at the Hurricane Marina in Smithville, Tennessee is creating a critical buzz among many of his former congressional constituents. Dubbed “Bio-Solar One,” which may reflect some latent Air Force One envy, Gore has proudly strutted the small-town dock claiming that his monstrous houseboat is environmentally friendly. (Only Al Gore would name his boat B.S. One and not get the joke. Or perhaps the joke is on us?)



Al Gore's new houseboat

The boat is a custom-built Fantasy Yacht built specifically for Gore by Bill Austin of Sparta, Tennessee.

According to Austin, the engines are bio-diesel fueled and Gore can expect to use about two gallons an hour to cruise Center Hill Lake. With a 500 gallon capacity Austin says Gore won’t need a refill for “two or three years” though he admits having “no clue” about where Gore could get bio-diesel at the lake. The Hurricane Marina dock doesn’t sell it.

“This boat is going to be the Toyota Prius of the houseboat business,” Austin proclaims. “It is the most eco-friendly houseboat anywhere in the country and is going to revolutionize the houseboat industry. People are increasingly worried about high gas prices and this is the answer.” Austin claims that the “Bio-Solar One” will create 40-50% less carbon emission and use half the fuel of other similar houseboats. “Gore will consume a lot more fuel driving to and from the lake than he will ever use cruising on this houseboat,” Austin asserts.

The solar panels have not yet been installed but are expected to arrive from Reno, Nevada “any day” and will be in working order “soon,” says Austin.

When the solar panels are installed the Gore boat could power itself and “most of the dock” according to Austin. In the meantime, however, Gore is plugged into the dock as his primary power source.


Austin says he has several other potential customers interested in following Gore’s lead. Austin professes reluctance to talk about “other folks business” but notes that a houseboat similar to Gore’s will cost between $500,000 to a million dollars. Austin believes that Gore’s “Bio-Solar One” will set the stage for a lot of sales. Land, air and now the sea. Will space will be the final frontier?

Let’s not forget: Gore made similar claims about the environmental benefits of the solar panels and other “green” additions he made to his 10,000 square foot home in Belle Meade, a cushy neighborhood in Nashville, Tennessee. The environmental savings promised from his “investments” failed to produce the results that he touted. In fact, his “energy efficient” renovations to his home actually INCREASED his electrical consumption by 10% rather than producing the promised reductions. Ultimately, Gore’s water-based excursions on his giant houseboat may prove more environmentally friendly than his fleet of limos, his private jets or his mansion. Perhaps the B.S. One will never live up to its nickname, but the jet ski on the boat is clearly powered by something other than solar or bio-diesel.



Maybe Al is buying carbon credits from himself to offset that particular energy usage.

Old Post Nov-24-2009 14:14  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for Shakka Click here to Send Shakka a Private Message Add Shakka to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

So I've always been a fan of a carbon tax over cap & trade, but outside of that issue entirely, Is this an AGM refutation thread? Why again are climatologists trying to scam us? Are we in any danger of physicists or mathematicians pulling the wool over our eyes as well?

I'm just trying to gauge how concerned I should get about this global science conspiracy.


___________________
Retro ...

Old Post Nov-25-2009 10:09  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for occrider Click here to Send occrider a Private Message Add occrider to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
astroboy
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Melbourne

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
Why again are climatologists trying to scam us?


Hello.. reptillians are cold-blooded. Do I have to connect the dots for you?


___________________
"my son will be a gienues(sp?)" - Originally posted by Googooly
"many species of bear give blowjobs." - Originally posted by Sunsnail.. NOW CONFIRMED BY PHOTO EVIDENCE!
"astroboy is brave and gentle and wise." - Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
"ew! i wouldn't go anywhere near a homeless dudes butthole... not even if i was sodomizing him with a poison ivy cactus dildo" - Originally posted by lücid
"also can someone post the link to my mom's forum, thank you!" - Originally posted by miamitrance04
"dude man its not me its what the world does to me. Trust me I'm a normal person people just constantly fuck with me." Originally posted by ********
"I can see Lira getting a hard-on already. And believe me, Brazilian ass rape is the worst." - Originally posted by Meat187

Old Post Nov-25-2009 13:27  Australia
Click Here to See the Profile for astroboy Click here to Send astroboy a Private Message Visit astroboy's homepage! Add astroboy to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Renegade
____________/



Registered: May 2001
Location: Prague, Czech Republic


___________________
http://eschatonnow.blogspot.com/

Old Post Nov-29-2009 15:53  Australia
Click Here to See the Profile for Renegade Click here to Send Renegade a Private Message Add Renegade to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

quote:
Originally posted by Jeezus
This whole carbon credit thing is one big fail scheme.. its like rich countries bribing poor countries for not polluting while rich countries go on at it..


The only reason those poor countries don't pollute is because they aren't industrialized. They couldn't give two shits about polluting. It's just another way for them to beg.


___________________

Old Post Nov-29-2009 18:21  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
Click Here to See the Profile for Krypton Click here to Send Krypton a Private Message Visit Krypton's homepage! Add Krypton to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message

TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Carbon offsets (a.k.a. indulgences...)
Post New Thread    Post A Reply

 
Last Thread   Next Thread
Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playback30sec melody. need ID! Thanks. [2004] [8]

Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackRah - "Pole Position" (Airbase Remix) [2004]

Show Printable Version | Subscribe to this Thread
Forum Jump:

All times are GMT. The time now is 19:22.

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
Search this Thread:

 
Contact Us - return to tranceaddict

Powered by: Trance Music & vBulletin Forums
Copyright ©2000-2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Privacy Statement / DMCA
Support TA!