If you understand my post here, then bloody well done, because I'm finding it hard to get accross!


I've been using C5 about 8 months.

I have no external mixer.

Had a steinberg interface until yesterday, when it was replaced with the RME 400 fireface.

I have 2 external synths. One is now hooked up to the interface' digital in, the other to an analogue mono input on the interface.

PS - The digital synth is a roland fantom x7 - does anyone know if it spits out at 24bit, or is 16 bit. Nothing in thier damn manaual.

I have 1 mic hooked up too.

I have 3 sets of monitors.

MY OBJECTIVE = TO 'SIMPLY' ALWAYS HEAR WHAT IS EVENTUALLY EXPORTED, I.E. NOT TO HAVE SOME SORT OF 'DUAL' LISTENING SET UP.

I have no concept of 'monitoring' in my brain, I only have the notion of hearing the main stereo outputs, and am not interested in anything other than hearing what the main stereo outputs , output.

Monitoring I guess has a place in 'real' studios, but to my mind is some sort of dual listening thang that I dont want as I might not be hearing the 'true' stereo output as per what will be printed on audio export, thus I end up with a different sounding track to that I had been hearing under a 'monitoring' setup.

Again I have no concept of 'monitoring' and no nidea why I have to fuk about with it, all I want to hear is the 'true' stereo output that will be printed out later.

I've never understood the monitoring side of things, and I've had a suspiscion that what I can hear when working on a track is not what is exported later as the mix always sounds a bit different when later played back (ie; outside of cubase).

I have a number of questions;



1) Do I need to use the 'studio' tab inside cubase vst connections tab?

What I mean is this - in my brain I want 'simply' set up the OUTPUTS in the output tab, job done - why the need for an extra layer called 'studio'?

What is the point of the STUDIO connections tab?

When I make connections in the studio tab it seems to override the connection I'd just made in the outputs tab. It's as if cubase likes ONE OR THE OTHER.

2) So I want to hear what is printed on export - so in the main mixer section should I set the outputs of each lane to MAIN MONITORS, OR STEREO OUT?

I want to chose ONE of these, and not keep flitting between the 2 options for every lane as that would take too long.

3)MONITORING - Now per see I have no interest in MONITORING as such, I dont even know what it means.

All I want is to ALWAYS SIMPLY HEAR WHAT IS 'REAL' AND WHAT WILL BE EXPORTED.

If playing my fantom, I want to hear it as part of the total cubase stereo output, not some 'dual' listening setup.

LATENCY - My pc runs on 17's and is pretty damned powerful so I dont think I need to be worrying about latency particularly.

I do not want some kind of dual option listening set up if you get me.



So cubase manual page 76 gives 3 types of monitoring setup option (wtf!) -agaain this confusing use of the word 'monitoring' which in my brain is surplus to what I need.

A) MONITORING VIA CUBASE

B) EXTERNAL MONITORING

C) ASIO DIRECT MONITORING

Within these are 4 options - manual / while record enabled / while record running / tape machine style - just to really add to the confusion.

Now all this just confusing the hell out of me. Again to repeat, I just want to hear what is 'real' and comming out the cubase stereo outputs.

WHICH OF THESE MAIN 3 ABOVE SHOULD I USE?


LOOP BROWSING / AND LISTENING TO WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER AND REAL PLAYER

I've also noticed I cant hear anything when loop browsing inside cubase, or when listening to devices outside of cubase.

I cant work out how to tell the RME I want to hear in these other instances too, when loop browsing and not using cubase.

HAMMERFALL DSP

Just to add to the confusion is a tiny fottnote in the cubase manual page 77, in typical germanic sytle with no 'context' as to why the following is important;

It says ' if using RME Audio Hammerfall DSP audio hardware, make sure that the pan law is set to -3db in the card prefernces'.

I dont know if the RME 400 is a hammerfall device!


Much love

Richard

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You don't want some kind of dual listening setup, I got that.

Hey Richard - It's been a while since I've done any tracking in Cubase and I'm at work now, so I can't look at Cubase to confirm many of your questions, but I'll help as much as I can.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler A) MONITORING VIA CUBASE B) EXTERNAL MONITORING C) ASIO DIRECT MONITORING Within these are 4 options - manual / while record enabled / while record running / tape machine style - just to really add to the confusion. Now all this just confusing the hell out of me. Again to repeat, I just want to hear what is 'real' and comming out the cubase stereo outputs. WHICH OF THESE MAIN 3 ABOVE SHOULD I USE?

The only one of the monitoring options that will let you hear your inputs after actually going into Cubase is Option A - Monitoring via Cubase. The major disadvantage is that it introduces latency. External monitoring routes the instrument directly from your soundcard out to the speakers before it goes to the computer, so you are essentially hearing it alongside Cubase's output, not as part of it. The advantage is that there is no computer-induced latency. Similar case for Option C - ASIO Direct Monitoring, except that the input signal goes from your card into the computer, then back to the soundcard where you are hearing it alongside Cubase's output. The advantage, from what I recall is that you have additional control over the level/panning, etc. over the signal from within Cubase. A drawback is that this will introduce some latency.

I have a suspicion that the problem you are encountering is that you are hearing both the direct signal and the Cubase signal in the output of the instruments that you are monitoring - essentially hearing it twice. I'm not familiar enough with the RME to tell you how to check it, but I've have the same thing happen with Sonar and my MOTU, and I just have to turn off the direct monitoring with either the MOTU or via Sonar when tracking to hear what is actually being recorded. You may want to look into that.

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i think it's what cryo said. the fireface comes with a own mixer. you should mute the inputs in this mixer (or remove the routing to the output). if you want to hear what's going on in cubase. you need to route it through cubase alone.

to confirm the double routing you could try to mute the master output in cubase and if you still can hear the synths, it's exactly this problem.

Cheers guys

but what about the cubase individual mixer lanes? Output them to MAIN MONITORS or STEREO OUT?


Im worried that one of these (say main monitors) might give me a different mix to that which is actual outputted in the export process?

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I'm not sure what MAIN MONITORS is - is that your master output buss? If so, then I would suggest using that. If you don't have a master buss set up, I would suggest doing that and routing all of your tracks and other busses through that as the final output stage to your soundcard. As I recall, STEREO OUT will output the track directly to your soundcard, bypassing Cubase's summed master output (hopefully someone can confirm this), so you probably don't want to send tracks to that output. However, your master buss should go directly to that output.

Essentially the outputs of your projects' tracks and busses should look something like:


>----------->------------v
^
tracks > sub-busses > Master buss > Stereo output on your soundcard


This will assure that all tracks are summed through the master output. Hopefully, that makes sense!

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Hi Richard,

If i understand you correctly you just want to hear whats what and thats it, no additional mixes/monitoring etc, just your Main monitors through Cubase, end of.

If this is the case turn of direct monitoring, no need for it with RME.
Turn of Studio although if you wish to hear anything when you do an export in Real time (if you use hardware synths) then this needs to be on, just put it to 0db and you will be fine or better still just leave it off and dont listen, then you dont need to worry about it ever.

If you have no need for extra outputs and inputs, you should only have the ones you use active in the appropriate sections, namely VST Connections.

So if you only use output 1/2 of your card for your monitors then only have those set-up, no need for any other outputs.

If you have inputs set-up, then just set-up the ones you use, no need for anything else.

Save the Cubase input/output set-up so U dont get confused if you change anything in a one off situation.

All of the channels in the mixer should be set to Main Stereo output as you should only have 1 output active if thats all you use. If you happen to have 2 outputs selected for any particular reason then you would change it accordingly.

Other instances where this would change is if you are sending any of the channels to anywhere else, group channels for instance but the group channels output would be set to Main output.

Remember to make things easier you can rename all the inputs and outputs to whatever you like in VST Connections hence making ID easier.

If your questions still are not answered or i have made an error in understanding your problems get in touch via MSN - [email protected] and we will see if we cant sort any problems you have in real time

all the best,

Mark

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Psy-Trance Production

check in "VST Connections" to see if there are multiple outputs defined. just use one stereo output there (and if you don't have control room disbaled, you can do it there aswell)

cryo - very kind of you as ever.

I always have a master bus.

I'm wanting to know then if the individual lanes should be outputted to stereo out or main monitors. Cubase manual just assumes things like this are a given, but for someone like me they're fundamental.

I would try the cubase.net forum but it's pretty grim there last time I tried and the German mods are pretty condescending.

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STEREO OUT is simply the name that Cubase assigns to the first output created in the Output tab under VST Connections which you then assign to the outputs you are using on your sound-card, in this case it would be Analogue 1 and 2. This IS the MASTER BUS so route everything to this unless, as stated above, the signal goes via an additional bus.

Mark

Is MAIN MONITORS something you defined? Did you call an output under the output TAB "MAIN MONITORS"? Remember outputs can be called anything you like

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In life there is nought but you, the universe, and experience of both, make the most of them, be free, express yourself and love life !

Psy-Trance Production

quote:

Originally posted by thecYrus check in "VST Connections" to see if there are multiple outputs defined. just use one stereo output there (and if you don't have control room disbaled, you can do it there aswell)

You've given me an idea which I'm going to try;

Have one stereo buss out in cubase.

Then use the RME independant soft mixer to set up 3 sets of monitors from the harware. Mmmmm

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I have exactly the same setup as you.

I dont need Monitoring set-ups for anything.

i simply have 1 output, Analogue 1/2 on the RME 400 assigned to my Stereo Out, Studio off unless i want to export in real time,thats it.


Unless you need to setup different monitor mixes for different rooms, ie studio room, editing room, monitoring room, kitchen, the bog whatever you dont need to use it.

Mark

___________________
In life there is nought but you, the universe, and experience of both, make the most of them, be free, express yourself and love life !

Psy-Trance Production