Before I start ranting, let me tell you a little about myself so you can decide if this rant 'worthy' - i have listened and dj'd edm for over a decade. produced for 1.5 years and ran a label for 1.5 years. i'd like to think i know more than the average "joe" when it comes to EDM, especially from a business perspective. I've been fortunate enough to be mentored by one of the greatest Trance producers to talk the planet (and you would agree, he posts on this forum along with one of biggest distributors over the past 20 years in EDM with over 10,000 tracks under his supervision.

It's getting bad guys. Really bad. It is not a coincidence that Tiesto divorced himself from Blackhole. It's not coincidence that the most famous dollar chaser (nothing wrong with that) in EDM will be working film full time in max 18 months. Sasha said he had done it all 5 years ago and was bored, and compared to what he used to do, how could you argue? Where did Bedrock go? Where did Yoshitoshi go? Why are some of the biggest names in engineering and mixing leaving EDM recently? Why have world tours cut down? (Don't give me economy excuses. Bars actually do WELL in an economic downturn, look it up)

The bottom line is $ and there has never been a worse time in this industry and if people don't start buying music or pouring some money into this system it's not going to last. Some will argue it's already failed, but just wait until the beloved Deadmouse's and AVB's of the world disappear. Maybe then some people will get a clue, and it'll be too late.

When the cash stops flowing in, only the ones who really love it will remain. Good, I say.

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Originally posted by DjStephenWiley Where did Bedrock go? Where did Yoshitoshi go? Why are some of the biggest names in engineering and mixing leaving EDM recently?

Bedrock is still around. Bedrock still does its regular nights around the UK and they are still putting out 1 to 2 records per month. I'm regularly picking up the new Bedrock releases. Digweed has his Transitions podcast, which is doing really well. Sasha is still touring and releasing music. I'm not sure how that is working out dollars-wise, but they are still around.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles When the cash stops flowing in, only the ones who really love it will remain. Good, I say.

I'm kind of with you on this. Getting back to a time when it was more about the music and less about the money is probably a good thing. As a once famous record put it "Underground lives forever, baby. We're just like roaches. Never die, always livin' And on that note, let's get back to the programme."

all doom and gloom then but bottom line people will allways want to hear music and so people will carry on makinging it as well.

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let them oldies leave if they want, theres no loss for us, actually they will leave some space for new thinking. i love it all. start a liveact (combine dj/producing somehow), forget about everything else. money will come when ur good enough. theyre just all old now, thats why.

I agree, but its not going to happen.

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I have to disagree. I know people who feed their families because of music and are just as passionate as you and I. It's not fair to them in my opinion and that's a very jaded way of looking at things. Somebody who manages over 10,000 tracks and 20 labels can't continue doing it without any revenue, period (He wouldn't have time for a job, and therefore couldn't continue to do it. That doesn't mean he isn't as passionate) These are people who have supported EDM for 20 years and helped shape it. The view of them should be the exact opposite and it's quite disturbing people don't respect what people in the past have done and continue to do.

So how does your bullshit explain the dozens of EDM labels and artists that have come up the past few years? I mean a label that releases some of my stuff, went from nothing, no one knowing them, to being one of the top house labels of the past 3 years. And in the same time, you doomsday sayers have been selling the same bullshit.

At the moment there are plenty of artists and labels that are flourishing within EDM. And every industry has its companies and people that come and go, so what does your reasoning exactly have to do with the health of the industry?

Labels like Yoshitoshi "went away" because the DJs who played their Prog sound went away from it.....to something else. The owners (Deep Dish) went on to different things. Your barometers for the health of edm is quite ridiculous. Not to mention, more people are listening to and buying EDM than they ever have. I'd say maybe 5-10 times more than 10 years ago. My cousin went to Spain last summer, and he said the national genre is EDM...every car on virtually every corner or shop is blasting some form of EDM. And thats true for virtually most of Europe. Given that most of you guys are clueless about business or economics, or market systems, you come with these bullshit stories about the industry, when you really have no clue about how industries move, grow, or fade away. Nothing within EDM industry has happened that would cause the money flow to stop, in fact digital distribution has given EDM labels the ability to sell to people and places they never had before. These are absolute gains and not losses, a change in medium is not what causes the end of industries, but often growth.


The biggest problem EDM faces is Digital Distributors/Retailers stealing sales (aided by soulless shills ; )...from artists and labels...this is the single biggest problem. But a solution will be found for this problem eventually, and people who shill on forums will have to find a real job, and maybe replenish the soul they've likely sold for cheap to do the dirty they do. So the only reason good EDM product on good Label will not sell, is if someone is robbing the bank at some level, given the transparency and accounting for sales is absolute shit...though the sales are happening worldwide more than they ever have.


ps : I have a feeling God would save a filthy hooker from hellfire before He saves a shill. Someone quote me ; )

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commercial and underground electronic music (house/techno/trance/other) will surpass today's hip hop/pop/rock/country in worldwide interest...if it has'nt already.

Think outside the box. These times require a different approach than the regular 'put it out and they'll buy it' approach.

* What seperates you from the bunch?
* What keeps your fans/listeners/buyers hooked on your label?
* What other ways are there to generate income and boost the label's profile?

All relevant questions you probably haven't thought about or worked on. As far as I know, with your current business model the answer would be:
* nothing
* I don't know anything else other than solid music productions
* myspace? facebook?

No offense but that ain't gonna fly anymore I'm afraid. Unless your music really is top notch. And there's only very few of those.

Try and interact with your audience. Create a platform (which allows growth in a multitude of -commercially interesting- directions), not just a label.

If you look at some of the big ones, they're putting out tons of crap over and over because they know shit to do with the current online audience. The music is generally poor but the massive amount of releases compensates for that as each of them sell a bit either way. From my point of view the ultimate example for this would be Armada. They're putting out so little quality these days while not so many years ago they where top notch.

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Storyteller Website | Storyteller @ Facebook | Storyteller @ Beatport | Storyteller @ Soundcloud | Stephen J. Kroos - Europa (Storyteller Remix)
Anthony Mea - Get It On (Storyteller Remix)

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If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

Last edited by Storyteller on Mar-24-2010 at 16:31

By the way, Yoshitoshi has been decently active for about a year now. Between new releases and big re-releases of their catalogue.

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commercial and underground electronic music (house/techno/trance/other) will surpass today's hip hop/pop/rock/country in worldwide interest...if it has'nt already.

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Originally posted by DjStephenWiley I have to disagree. I know people who feed their families because of music and are just as passionate as you and I. It's not fair to them in my opinion and that's a very jaded way of looking at things. Somebody who manages over 10,000 tracks and 20 labels can't continue doing it without any revenue, period (He wouldn't have time for a job, and therefore couldn't continue to do it. That doesn't mean he isn't as passionate) These are people who have supported EDM for 20 years and helped shape it. The view of them should be the exact opposite and it's quite disturbing people don't respect what people in the past have done and continue to do.

So what if the days of mega-labels are over? I respect what people have done in the past but times change. And great music will continue being made regardless of whether the "superstar DJ music mogul" thing ends. People who really want to do it will keep at it, even if they have to support themselves with a non-music job.

We were talking about this in my music business class. Basically people ARE buying music and in their millions. More music is sold now than before mp3's were around. Yes people steal it but people have always copied tapes,recorded from the radio on their reel to reel tapes and swapped vinyls. The problem is there is now MUCH more choice a single isn't selling a million copies because back in the day there were only a few huge names around at the time so all the pop sales were driven to those records.

basically the cake got much bigger so the average size of slice went down. Especially as EDM is not really in the pop charts except for grime, house etc so our slice got way smaller.

Admittedly you make more money pressing up 500 white labels and touting them round record shops then digitally releasing an mp3, but that was for many reasons mainly because you were taking your product almost directly to where it would sell most. Like 2001 if I made a hard house record in birmingham it would have flew out and I would have made my profit in this city. However it wouldn't of sold in bolton because they were into a different style at the time. Now that everyone with a laptop can make tracks and upload them for sale there is just way more choice and its not as targetted at specific scenes.

Just my 2c worth anyway

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Processing a highly structured and complex pattern of sensory input as a unified percept of "music" is probably one of the most elaborate features of the human brain.....understanding how music is perceived and how it may elicit intense sensations is far from being understood.