Mastering should be the last thing on your mind right now

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I got to a point where my mixing was awful in FL 8. Everything was too loud, mids were crushed by harsh highs and loud basses and sounds blended together into an incomprehensible mess. My remix of Novastorm's Systole was kind of the tipping point, I thought it sounded great until I got feedback on it and I realized my music really sounded bad compared to pro tracks. Hell, even my old tracks sounded nicer quality-wise.

I always wanted that "massive" sound but in my rush to try and turn up the volume knobs the actual quality got lost in everything going on, so I turned everything down. I spent a good month or two doing nothing but constructing loops out of quieter, subtler and simpler sounds. Once those started sounding consistently good I went ahead and started making elements louder, and now my mixing is, in my opinion, miles ahead from what it used to be. You really need to work at it though, it's something that comes with time. There aren't many tricks that'll help you instantly. One that did help me is low-passing any sound that doesn't have any reason to have a presence in the lower frequencies, but other than that I don't have any other "tricks".

I'm making a jump and assuming you meant mixing when you said mastering. If you actually meant mastering then like Sako said, don't even worry about it now. It's also not anything that should really be done in FL unless you have the appropriate plug-ins.

I see no issue with trying to master yourself. Yes, ideally you should leave it to someone that knows what they are doing but the odds that you will make the amount of money to even cover the cost of a decent master are slim.

quote:

Originally posted by Kysora I got to a point where my mixing was awful in FL 8. Everything was too loud, mids were crushed by harsh highs and loud basses and sounds blended together into an incomprehensible mess. My remix of Novastorm's Systole was kind of the tipping point, I thought it sounded great until I got feedback on it and I realized my music really sounded bad compared to pro tracks. Hell, even my old tracks sounded nicer quality-wise. I always wanted that "massive" sound but in my rush to try and turn up the volume knobs the actual quality got lost in everything going on, so I turned everything down. I spent a good month or two doing nothing but constructing loops out of quieter, subtler and simpler sounds. Once those started sounding consistently good I went ahead and started making elements louder, and now my mixing is, in my opinion, miles ahead from what it used to be. You really need to work at it though, it's something that comes with time. There aren't many tricks that'll help you instantly. One that did help me is low-passing any sound that doesn't have any reason to have a presence in the lower frequencies, but other than that I don't have any other "tricks". I'm making a jump and assuming you meant mixing when you said mastering. If you actually meant mastering then like Sako said, don't even worry about it now. It's also not anything that should really be done in FL unless you have the appropriate plug-ins.

I've never read a single post my entire time on this forum that has humbled me as much as this.
I wasn't even really in a sour mood till reading this post and identifying with every single thing you wrote.

But that is the SAME exact problem I've been suffering from easily for the last 6 years I've been using FL. And what pisses me off kinda is I know you have much less experience than me, but its seems you have genuinely got past this problem because I've heard your tracks and they are always much cleaner than mine.

I think rather than fish for advice in this thread I'm going to spend some serious time rendering examples and putting a thread together to explain exactly what my thought process is and why I can never get past this issue. But a lot of it is due to the fact that even when I lower all my sounds, I'm faced with an extremely low volume render that I have to bring back up.

So I start doing horrible things to raise the volume, and always wind up falling short and destroying the quality of my mix. So my choices are basically:

Have a low volume mix that sounds quality but its too low to hear properly on other systems (like my car I'll turn the mix up all the way and can't even feel the kick hitting)

OR

Have an extremely loud mix thats fairly distorted in the mid/high range, but transfers more properly to other systems.

The crazy part is even when I rape my sounds to get them loud, they're STILL always lower than any pro track I compare them too. And I notice it the first second a pro track plays and the kick hits. No matter how I layer the my kicks or how good of samples I use, even if I bring it up to -2dbs (which is terrible I know), its STILL low.

Its really a lose/lose situation that I've never been able to really get past. People always say "use better sounds" but its impossible, I spend hours and hours just trying to build presence in my sounds w/out bringing the volume up at all. And at the end no matter what I do its still low.

But thanks for posting that I'm going to start getting the thread together now so hopefully its ready tommorow with examples and all.

I was bashed quite a bit for this not too long ago but really, I don't use a lot of compression in my tracks. Which is odd considering uplifting trance is full of it, but any time I try to use it I'm just unhappy with the effect. Maybe that's your issue?

What I used to do is use limiters, and especially Maximus in FL, to boost pretty much every sound, with the volume knob at like 35-40%. The problem is with sounds that loud anytime you want to have something be prominent, you have to turn it up louder. But then once that's louder the entire track's overall volume becomes louder, and it's just a mess. I try to find a balance that works for every single sound so while ones might be more prominent than the others, it's not much louder. If I do have to make a sound more prominent I'm more inclined to turn down the other sounds that are drowning it out.

It does make for a quiet pre-master render but I usually boost the entire track several db's through iZotope oZone. Ironically that uses compression but I never overdo it, or at least I hope I don't.

Glad my post inspired you though. Hope your thread works out.

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Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox . And what pisses me off kinda is I know you have much less experience than me, but its seems you have genuinely got past this problem because I've heard your tracks and they are always much cleaner than mine.

you need to accept that people do not have the same talent or ability to learn things fast. Perhaps you aren't that gifted. Deal with it. What ever you lack in ability, you can surely make up in effort. There is always going to be someone alot better and successful than you. Deal with it or it will eat you up inside.

I'm pretty sure what ever issues you are facing, they are most likely due to things relating to how you go about producing. Do you have a structured way of learning ? Do you do exercises ? Do you actively listen ?

I come back and see about 3 different threads concerning people not happy with their current state. There is no secret or shortcut. Work harder. Work smarter. And years mean nothing. Someone can learn what one person learns in 6 years in under a year. Stop comparing yourself to others. Compare your music but don't use that sort of flawed logic that because someone has been producing less than you, technically you should be better.

You guys should know by now I'm really humble about what I do, I'm not trying to praise myself by saying this or anything but Richie's right, I've always been really good about learning things quickly, and not just with producing. I'm constantly teaching myself new things regardless of what it is just because I'm capable of taking in information and retaining it rather quickly.

You might have been doing this for 3 times longer than I have but for the two years I've taken producing seriously I've always been teaching myself new stuff. I'm constantly toying around with FL, trying out new techniques, reading tutorials, and before work and school consumed my schedule I spent at least an hour on the program every day, usually more than that.

Don't get discouraged because someone newer to this might be "better" from your perspective. I'm sure you know way more than I do, but I've got a very good grasp on what I'm doing myself and I'm pretty confident in what I can do, even if what I actually might know about producing isn't as much as people who've been at it for years longer than me.

See I initially heard that word "effort" and had about a million and 1 different reasons to argue why I think I put more effort into producing than anyone.

Just when Kysora said he use to spend an hour or more on Fl a day I kind of smirked and thought "I easily can put in 4 hours a day sometimes more" on FL (which obviously just made me feel worse). And I'm really realizing lol that my logic IS flawed. Its flawed as it can possibly be.

When I was a newbie I went to the reason forums and was told the "best" way to learn how to make good music is to just practice, to go on my sequencer everyday and just use it as much as I could. And I came to these forums years later and basically heard the same thing, "nothing compares to just opening your sequencer and learning through practice and experience" and I think I've adopted that belief to an extent that I'm finally realizing is messing me up more than anything today.

I've always put countless hours into using Fruity for as long as I've had it. But thats been most of everything that I've done for my production. And I was comparing it to areas of my life that I consider myself to be good at. Like chemistry for one, and bodybuilding/nutrition second (psychology 3rd). And I remembered at one point in my life I must have been going to the gym 2-3 hours a day, for years nonstop, and never made much of any change at all in my physique. Identical to what I'm doing with Fl right now almost.

It wasn't untill I opened my first nutrition book, started taking classes, starting reading about it online, that I figured out how important diet was. I became a master at nutrition and never have had another problem since reaching the goals I set for myself.
I got good at chemistry by reading college chem books in highschool, and all throughout college. And I can't really think at this point that anything else is holding me back but HOW I exhaust my effort. I don't have a learning plan, a strategy, daily things I'm focusing on to improve like M4B said.
I've always thought I would learn more wasting 100 hours on FL and 0 hours tutorials vs wasting 80 hours on FL and 20 hours on tutorials. Because it feels like I have to waste 100 hours of watching tuts just to learn an hours worth of skills. And I've always assumed in the 100 hours on I'm on FL I'm easily learning way more than an hours worth of skill. But I'm realizing not only is my math severely fucked, but the way I approach this whole thing in general.

I DO on occassion watch tuts, but in the last year I can prob count them all on one hand. I've opened production books from time to time and for the most part felt like they were a waste, but now I'm really thinking I have no other choice. I mean if I don't start doing something different, I don't know how I can expect my results to be different. So rather than waste my time on making that thread, I'm going to start thinking of ways to bring information into my brain on a daily basis. Even if I don't think I'm going to use it I'm obviously not learning much of anything anymore just be playing around on fruity.
If I love trance as much as I think I do, I think I can absolutely find the time to learn the shit I dred and tell myself isn't gonna help (I usually dred it just because I think its not gonna help). I mean there isn't much of anything else I can possibly consider doing at this point. I've made thousands of threads, and the only common denominator I seem to be ignoring is getting a solid grasp on the technical side of things.

So thanks both Kysora & M4B, I genuinely feel like if I can work more on my strategy for learning, rather than aimlessly "practicing" on FL, I might actually start seeing some results I'm happy with. And as simple as it sounds.. Im rather confused why its taken this long to actually understand. Guess its part of that whole ability to learn thing lol.

Yeah as invaluable as just playing around is as much as you can I really think all that can do for you is solidify what you already know, and you might pick up a trick or two on the way. There's stuff out there you can't just pick up without either specifically seeking out to learn it or by specializing your production time to one area of your work.

But shit, 4 hours a day? God I wish I had that kind of free time, haha. That's about how much time I put into it back when I started, when I was just starting to explore my creativity and could make like 3-5 "songs" a week. For you to be able to do that after 6 years, you're definitely more dedicated than most people here. You should be fine.

When was the last time you finished a track Robbie?

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Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.