first off i want to thank all of you for the great threads you guys post up because it truly does help us beginners in many ways. I've always loved electronic music (specially electro house) and been listening to it for many many years and always wanted to get into making music. 3 months ago i decided to give producing a try and downloaded myself ableton live. i've finished 2 tracks so far in the 3 months and im trying to work on my next one although it is very difficult. I have NO background to MUSIC THEORY what so ever except other than what time signature and notes are lol. i always tend to get stuck after making my loops for the drums because i dont know any chords or which note sounds good with which... trust me guys the last 2 tracks were pure LUCK..... would you guys say its better for me to leave the producing part of this alone and simply focus all my attention on theory (chords, scales, etc.) or continue messing around until my ear gets trained to it? Also would u recommend me going to producing classes if i have the money or its better for me to learn everything on my own? I simply want to know where is the absolute best place for me to start to make good basslines and melodies and etc. i also work full time so i have maybe give or take 2-4 hours a day to just put aside for producing. one last thing that would help me a lot is telling me how you started to figure out what sounds worked with what or where you learned music producing... weather it was all alone by yourself pulling your hair out over the years until you simply got good at it or did u attend some sort of institution.... simply just tell me how you started and where you would think is a good place for me to start now that you have a lot more experience? I would again really appreciate your help thanks a lot guys!!!

Do a bit of both.

Dont stop practicing your producing. You will learn new things with every song.

Dont expect your stuff to get good fast. It takes time and effort.

Start learning the theory, but dont let it bog you down. Just learn things slowly and at your own pace. Things will make sense the more you learn other things.

As for sounds and stuff, that also takes a bit of time. Learning how synths work and how sounds are sculpted is an art. But its not impossible to learn. Deconstructing patches backwards helps to understand why they sound the way they do. Then later on it gets easier to apply what you have in your head.

Just keep at it dude. Its fun anyway.

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If I could go back to scratch again and map out how I think the optimal way to learn, I would stay start with some simple stuff.


Learn how to use a simple synth: I personally think v-station by novation is the perfect synth for learning on, its also a really handy synth even when ur more advanced.

IMO the best way to learn how to make melodies or riffs is to try and copy some well known songs - try to replicate the sounds and timbres with your synth skills, and match the patterns/melodies/riffs by listening carefully and trying to match and play it on your keyboard. Will probabbly be pretty shit at first, but it really takes years to get to the point of being able to put out stuff thats half decent quality. So dont get too worked up about not getting great results straight away.

You'll also need to dabble with effects whilst also doing the above.


But I think you should practise all elements of producing when you can. If your getting bored or bogged down in one area of it then move to another. And tbh its likely to be an ongoing never ending process because I've been doing it for like 7 or 8 years or something rediclious like that and im still doing the same process.

quote:

Originally posted by dirty district first off i want to thank all of you for the great threads you guys post up because it truly does help us beginners in many ways. I've always loved electronic music (specially electro house) and been listening to it for many many years and always wanted to get into making music. 3 months ago i decided to give producing a try and downloaded myself ableton live. i've finished 2 tracks so far in the 3 months and im trying to work on my next one although it is very difficult. I have NO background to MUSIC THEORY what so ever except other than what time signature and notes are lol. i always tend to get stuck after making my loops for the drums because i dont know any chords or which note sounds good with which... trust me guys the last 2 tracks were pure LUCK..... would you guys say its better for me to leave the producing part of this alone and simply focus all my attention on theory (chords, scales, etc.) or continue messing around until my ear gets trained to it? Also would u recommend me going to producing classes if i have the money or its better for me to learn everything on my own? I simply want to know where is the absolute best place for me to start to make good basslines and melodies and etc. i also work full time so i have maybe give or take 2-4 hours a day to just put aside for producing. one last thing that would help me a lot is telling me how you started to figure out what sounds worked with what or where you learned music producing... weather it was all alone by yourself pulling your hair out over the years until you simply got good at it or did u attend some sort of institution.... simply just tell me how you started and where you would think is a good place for me to start now that you have a lot more experience? I would again really appreciate your help thanks a lot guys!!!

a good friend of mine who is an award winning classical composer once listened to a 3 hour trance set with me and told me that trance melodies are really nothing spectacular (unless you're giuseppe ottaviani) - these guys just know how to make them sound good with layering, effects, sequencing, form, and the like. i'm a big believer in keeping things simple. obviously you need some basics - like scales and chord progressions, but as someone who has taken basic music theory and quit - it really doesn't help that much. the best dance musicians can barely read music

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Progressive, Melodic, Bassline-driven Tech Trance

All-time Top 5:
1. Astralis - Solar Flare (Original Mix)
2. Markus Schulz feat. Justine Suissa - Perception (Vocal Mix)
3. Dakota - Koolhaus (Intro Mix)
4. Skytech - Cardboard Box (Ummet Ozcan Remix)
5. David Barnes - Noodler (Original Mix)

And some really good reads for those with a moderate understanding of music theory, you can read a condensed version of music theory here:

http://thereelscore.com/Pagesfldr/11Downloads.html

Another good way to practice creating melodies/harmonies is to lay down your foundation first in the form of an arpeggio.

Most trance is simply comprised of arpeggiated sequences that repeat.

TRUST ME, once you get that basic arpeggio laid down, it's really quite easy to make melodies and harmonies on top of it.

What's also cool, is that you can basically form your entire track off of it. If your bassline, harmony and melody all sound good with the arpeggiated chord progression, they will almost always (unless you've drastically botched something) sound good together.

The chord progression itself can start off as a single line chord progression, and you can add from there to make it as in-depth as you want.

For example, if you take an 1/8th note line of say A => C => E (fairly basic) andstart adding things in and mucking about, you can end up getting some nice running sequences, even through trial and error.

From there you can then shift the notes to create interesting rhythms...add in more notes to fill the space and voila, running arpeggiated chord progression.

Most anyone that's listened to music all of their life will be able to hear what's "right" and what's "wrong" this way. (it will be like "EW wrong note")

Find a synth you really like the sound of (because you'll be hearing alot of it over and over :P), and just focus on making an 8 bar phrase with it. Once that 8 bar phrase is done, copy it, and delete the last 4 bars of it, and try to come up with something new.

I only know basic theory myself, and doing the above has helped me loads.

Good luck

Last edited by theterran on Oct-27-2010 at 21:26

THANK U GUYS SOO MUCH

this really helped me out im going to try everything u guys mentioned in this forum and hopefully with trial and error i can get a lot better at it....

the main problem i usually encounter is i can build a really nice drum loop and just get to that "now what" part of me arrangement where i can maybe come up with a good bassline but after that i would have trouble getting a good melody down that works with the bassline or finding a nice hook that works...

then again this can also be because i have no knowledge what so ever of chords or scales or which chord i should use with what and this is the main reason i thought that theory would help me out because it would train my ear to acknowledge what good and what sounds like crap

i would suggest a more traditional approach while you still do your production. Learn the basics then start applying it to pop songs. Most pop songs are using the same chords they use in trance these days. I don't think there really is a short cut to really learning how to do this type of thing. People that listen to alot of music will know when something sounds good and when it doesn't but it still does not give you the power to know what chords and when to achieve the sound in your head.

I would say most people here have trouble just knowing when something sounds right and when it doesn't. If EDM has been a large part of your listening experience, you will be a little deficit in the area of harmony that you would of been subjected to with more mainstream music.

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Last edited by Looney4Clooney on Oct-30-2010 at 02:44

Get a Midi keyboard if you don't have one already. Easiest way for me to learn what notes sound good together is just take a note, C5 for example and play it. Then start going up scale hitting C5 and next note in scale. As your ear gets more trained you will hear which notes sound good together just by bouncing back and forward between notes.

After you get a bit more familiar with that, take it a little bit further and use C5 as your base note... and try pressing 3 keys down at the same time. The easiest 3 notes to start out with would probably be C-E-G. That right there is a chord. You can then move further and do C-E-A and so on. You should be able to hear how those notes compliment one another and how well they sound as compared to something like C-E-G#. Just kinda use that guide to help familiarize yourself to chords.

Just keep listening to a lot of Electronic music and get your ear trained to be able to decipher the tracks you listen to into different elements. Pick one element to listen to, such as the bass, and listen to how the bass line is composed and how it evolves as the track progresses. Try to mock it as best as you can, and whatever you cant come up with jump on here or type in your question on google. In most cases someone in the world has asked the same question and you will come up with an abundance of answers.


Hope this helps - Good luck!