Been watching videos on logic and noticed the users send their stuff to buses, so I was wondering is the full signal going to any giving bus, or like with the sends in live, they are choosing the amount to send.. I always thought it was just the amount they require (like the sends) until I noticed 1 guy sent all his percs to a bus and had a filter effect on to sweep them all down at once, meaning the whole signal is being sent before going to the master (so its like in series), at the same time though he also sends multi tracks to a reverb bus and also a delay bus..

In live I have reverbs and delays on sends, but if I want to filter all my percs for example, or compress them together, I would have to send all the track outputs to a new channel (or group them) and do it that way. So is the bus channels in logic a combination of the 2 where you can choose (like in series or parallel)?? Hope this makes sense.

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Originally posted by Andy28 Been watching videos on logic and noticed the users send their stuff to buses, so I was wondering is the full signal going to any giving bus, or like with the sends in live, they are choosing the amount to send..

The concept of a "bus" is simply a term to refer to the technique of simply sending the output of a single or collection of channels to another channel, which is referred to as a bus (or a group channel in Cubase). Then the output of the bus can go to another bus or the master out. The master out is simply a bus itself, just the last "bus" in the chain before output. Many of us has several "master outs" routed to different physical devices.

Sends only send part of the signal to another channel (the "wet" signal which is them blended back with the "dry" signal).

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Originally posted by Andy28 I always thought it was just the amount they require (like the sends) until I noticed 1 guy sent all his percs to a bus and had a filter effect on to sweep them all down at once, meaning the whole signal is being sent before going to the master (so its like in series), at the same time though he also sends multi tracks to a reverb bus and also a delay bus..

Right, so, Im not sure if there is a question in there.

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Originally posted by Andy28 In live I have reverbs and delays on sends, but if I want to filter all my percs for example, or compress them together, I would have to send all the track outputs to a new channel (or group them) and do it that way.

Thats one way to do it.

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Originally posted by Andy28 So is the bus channels in logic a combination of the 2 where you can choose (like in series or parallel)?? Hope this makes sense.

The concept of a "bus" is not unique to Logic. When you send the output of a single or multiple channels to another channel in Live, the channel being sent to is really a "bus" or "group channel" or whatever. Different DAW software packages use different terms to describe the same entity. There is nothing special about the concept of a "bus" other than its a channel whose input is a collection of other channels.

Are aux tracks in logic another word for return tracks like in live?

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Originally posted by alanzo It's like sifting through cat shit to find a penny. In the end, it wasn't worth the effort.

I don't know anything about return tracks in Live, I only use Live for simple DJ sets. In Logic Aux tracks are basically the same as audio tracks for all practical purposes. The only real difference is you can't load software instruments on an Aux track input and Aux tracks can accept rewire inputs whereas audio tracks cannot.

By return tracks I mean when you set up a send for say delay or reverb? If you want use a device as a send you would use an aux track to put the device on i.e. delay, then on the desired audio track dial in the amount you need via a send control?

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Originally posted by alanzo It's like sifting through cat shit to find a penny. In the end, it wasn't worth the effort.

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Originally posted by music2dance2 By return tracks I mean when you set up a send for say delay or reverb?

I don't know how it works in Live for that.

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Originally posted by music2dance2 If you want use a device as a send you would use an aux track to put the device on i.e. delay, then on the desired audio track dial in the amount you need via a send control?

You COULD use an Aux track, you don't have to. In Logic, Aux tracks can be "bus" tracks or "send" tracks for effects or even rewire input tracks. Its all up to you. You could also send to a instrument or audio track. At least thats how it works in Logic. In Logic you can pretty much send any track to any other track.

Ok cool I get ya, cheers dude.

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Originally posted by alanzo It's like sifting through cat shit to find a penny. In the end, it wasn't worth the effort.

A really cant word it any better. From your answers Im assuming the "bus" in logic can be used simply as a "bus" where the whole channel(s) output is sent (for whatever reason you like) before it goes to the master outputs, or you can use it as a "return track" where you can dial the required amount of the "reverb" (for example) to be applied to that sound..

I understand how it all works I setup buses in live, was just confused because in the logic video the bus tracks and the return tracks are all labeled bus1 bus2 etc.

Cheers

Last edited by Andy28 on Nov-02-2010 at 12:04

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Originally posted by Andy28 A really cant word it any better. From your answers Im assuming the "bus" in logic can be used simply as a "bus" where the whole channel(s) output is sent (for whatever reason you like) before it goes to the master outputs, or you can use it as a "return track" where you can dial the required amount of the "reverb" (for example) to be applied to that sound.. I understand how it all works I setup buses in live, was just confused because in the logic video the bus tracks and the return tracks are all labeled bus1 bus2 etc. Cheers

I believe its also routed to a auxillery track for "returns" as they have the send knob, bus's don't.

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Originally posted by alanzo It's like sifting through cat shit to find a penny. In the end, it wasn't worth the effort.

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Originally posted by Andy28 A really cant word it any better. From your answers Im assuming the "bus" in logic can be used simply as a "bus" where the whole channel(s) output is sent (for whatever reason you like) before it goes to the master outputs,

I think you may be misunderstanding the labeling of the track types in Logic. A "Bus" or "Aux" in Logic is just a track that takes a collection of tracks as input, via direct insert or send. There is no distinction between using a "aux" track in Logic to accept input from a collection of tracks and accepting send input from another single track or collection of tracks. There is no concept of "return" tracks like there is in Live. I don't know why Live handles it like that, you'd have to ask someone who knows more about Live than I do.

Also keep in mind the output of a "bus" or "Aux" track can be sent anywhere you like in Logic, it doesn't have to be sent to the "master out" as you describe it. You can route the output of the track to another "aux" track, or an audio track, or even a physical output. The signal routing is very flexible.

For example, I send all of my channels through a single "Aux" track at the end of my chain which is then used as input to send the stereo mains out to three separate physical outputs which are then routed (physically) to my Presonus monitor station, another computer (for spec and waveform analysis) and my DJ booth (for testing against other tracks). So in essence, I have three "master outs", as you put it.

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Originally posted by Andy28 or you can use it as a "return track" where you can dial the required amount of the "reverb" (for example) to be applied to that sound..

Right, I guess Live makes a distinction between whats considered a "grouping" channel used for collecting the output of other channels and a channel used for send inputs. Logic makes no such distinctions.

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Originally posted by Andy28 I understand how it all works I setup buses in live, was just confused because in the logic video the bus tracks and the return tracks are all labeled bus1 bus2 etc. Cheers

That is likely the difference in object types that started showing up in Logic 5, which was the first version of Logic to include Aux types for channels. Logic has gradually transitioned away from "bus" objects to aux objects. Aux channels offer a few advantages over bus channels in that they can take input from physical inputs, extra outputs or multi channel software instruments. For most people in a traditional EDM virtual mixing setup, the difference is negligible, and aux channels provide all the necessary functionality. However, if you still need a more complex signal routing path than what is offered by the "Aux" channels, or you still want to use the "bus" functionality (for example to maintain backwards compatibility with a legacy project), you can open up the Environment and start connecting things however you like. Thats one of the neat things about Logic is that it has a ton of flexibility to model the physical environment and even virtualize the environment when necessary.

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Originally posted by Eric J Right, I guess Live makes a distinction between whats considered a "grouping" channel used for collecting the output of other channels and a channel used for send inputs. Logic makes no such distinctions.

Yes, in live you have dedicated return tracks to send the required amounts of signal you want the fx to be applied to. As for "grouping" you can just highlight how ever many tracks you want grouped together and it will do that (sending all selected channel outputs to the group channel). Like logic though, live is pretty flexible in that you can rout the outputs of any audio or midi track to another audio track, and an audio track can also pick up a signal from any audio or midi track without the outputs of those tracks being routed to them.

Excellent answers as usual from Eric but I would like to clarify a bit further.

When you select a send on a given track in logic, the "return" channel for that is automatically created.

When you use a bus, you can't dictate the amount of that channel you want to "send" to that bus (without pulling down that tracks channel fader). In this respect the bus is absolute, in terms you route all or nothing where as with a send you can send any amount form 0 to 100 % of that track to another destination.

AFAIR (not in front of the computer now), Busses in logic are also absolute in that they re-route the output of that channel to a bus channel, where as a send splits off a copy of the signal leaving the actual output untouched.

Busses themselves cannot be automated as well - you would have to create an aux track and send to that if you wanted it to have automation.

So basically, for applications where you need to have a wet/dry balance, then use a send.

If you want to send one or more tracks to another track then use a bus.

If you want to control the same perameters on several tracks at once, create a group, then select what perameters are to be joined (bear in mind it is relative control so if you have one at 100% volume and the second track at 50%, when you pull down the 100% to the 50% mark the other will now be at 25%).

Hope you get what what I mean.