So I've been doing some comparison research between my stuff and other people's music and what I've noticed is that my music is much, much quieter, in terms of digital dB. My question, regarding this, is what is the ideal? Should I be mixing louder? Why? Apart from self-mastering, what methods and rules are you guys using to get your final levels?

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my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

sidechain. parallel analog.

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Originally posted by EddieZilker So I've been doing some comparison research between my stuff and other people's music and what I've noticed is that my music is much, much quieter, in terms of digital dB. My question, regarding this, is what is the ideal? Should I be mixing louder? Why? Apart from self-mastering, what methods and rules are you guys using to get your final levels?

I mix to about the same level as your tracks then run it through my 'home mastering'. This usually entails some 'wow' EQ, perhaps a little compression and then limiting.

I can always take it off again if I want a professional master done.

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I am interested in that too, I dont know if there are some commercial standards with specific db levels, I guess it depends on the genre and the label..

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker So I've been doing some comparison research between my stuff and other people's music and what I've noticed is that my music is much, much quieter, in terms of digital dB. My question, regarding this, is what is the ideal? Should I be mixing louder? Why? Apart from self-mastering, what methods and rules are you guys using to get your final levels?

What RMS level are you getting when you render assuming no limiter on the master channel?

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Originally posted by evo8 What RMS level are you getting when you render assuming no limiter on the master channel?

I'll have to check. I mix to unity on intermittent peaks, and then limit for a gain of 1.5-2.5 dB. I don't suspect it's very high, unless there's a lot of low frequencies, in there, but I'll be sure to measure that.

@ tehlord: Not to blow smoke up your ass, but your mix quality is kind of my benchmark, so that's a helpful perspective to have.

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Volume is good, but not at the cost of losing both dynamics and sounding effortless. Making your compressor/limiters work a little less hard is a good way to ensure this.

I'll let Robert Babicz explain:

http://vimeo.com/808485

After you watch that go listen to the track that plays in the background. Robert Babicz - Sin.

It is thunderous, powerful, dominant and most of all it sounds effortless. You can squeeze the shit out of sounds with an L2, for example - but you're just flatlining the entire sound. Everything sounds the same volume, your dynamics are gone. Instead, as Babicz points out - a more nuanced approach will eventually get you better results.

I'm sorry if I'm being vague, as if I'm holding back specifics - but certain topics almost demand abstractions to understand/explain. Perspective is a bitch.

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Originally posted by EddieZilker I'll have to check. I mix to unity on intermittent peaks

I take it you mean by this that you are mixing as close as possible to 0db right? if you have Wavelab or something you can measure the "loudness" of that render before limiting
In my case i would be about -12 to -11db RMS on a normalized to zero render (no limiting done) - maybe even -10 if it was a heavy techno track with a 808 style kick or heavy subbass

of course thats only one part of it, you could have a track at -7db rms and it still might not sound "loud", you need to have space in the mix, proper use of reverb, content in the 1khz to 5khz range etc etc... you know all this already

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Originally posted by EddieZilker @ tehlord: Not to blow smoke up your ass, but your mix quality is kind of my benchmark, so that's a helpful perspective to have.

You'z maek meh blush

There's a lot of smoke and mirrors in my mixes

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Originally posted by kaih You can squeeze the shit out of sounds with an L2, for example - but you're just flatlining the entire sound. Everything sounds the same volume, your dynamics are gone.

Very true. The last demo I sent off to a label sounded so much better with half the amount of limiting that I decided against squashing the track to hell just to get it louder.

this topic is very interesting ,

I do find my production less louder than other stuff that I use as reference . it seems like I need to find a way to make it loud and at the same time keep it as much dynamic as I can .

I have a way of doing so , that well , it work wonders and needs as little as to no effort specially if you are tight in time or fed up with your track . It was kind of my way for sometime and I didn't want to share

Okay , now that I hyped it enough , I use Traktor , yeah ladies and gents . Traktor gain limiter is sooo awesome , you load your tracks into one of the decks , make sure the gain limiter is activated , and turn that gain knob up , magic happens .

It's good way to gain few dbs but not to double your volume.

It doesn't help that so many DJs (and in fact venues) insist on their working level being 0dB peak the whole time, or quite often running into the reds on the mixer and pulling it down / limiting it off in the amp rack.

If a very compressed, loud record is playing and hitting 0dB on the DJ mixer, playing in a track which has been mixed/mastered a bit quieter (but still peaking at 0dB) has to be turned up to avoid a drop in loudness, so it then either clips or just gets squashed down by limiters, losing the dynamic range which the producer so carefully left in the track.

Any producer who knows this will always be tempted to push their master louder and louder.

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