quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux Ever since I have read the "Hit Theory" chapter in the book "Mixing with Your Mind" the idea that there is a hit formula has really interested me. In the book Paul mentions there's at least 7 factors that all popular music has in common from music that ranges from Beethoven's 5th all the way to The Archies - Sugar Sugar. In virtually every popular song, and I do mean popular and not "in the same vein as a popular song", predictable changes in high frequency content will propel the song. In a typical Verse-Chorus-Verse-Chorus-Bridge-Chorus format the verse will have a lower amount of energy while the chorus has more. In this typical pop structure the change in high frequencies make it easy to hear a structural change. If there isn't a shift in high frequencies the song will sound flat and lifeless. Dance music can be different because energy doesn't "gear shift" as dramatically, but ramps up, then breaks down, then ramps up again. There are dance tunes that are structured similarly to a Verse-Chorus popular song, and those can have "gear shifts" rather than "ramps." High frequency content is built up, and is only reduced so that it can be raise again for dramatic effect or to end a song.

This is true but honestly the popular song formula you've touched is more than just high frequency shifts, but still just as simple in essence - in AE school we had to take a song writing class, and when broken down in terms of intellectualizing music, there's a few basic component themes that present in popular songs such contrast (diversity vs repetition) spread of frquency (notes) vs similarity, length of sections etc

It's actually quite freaky how you can break down popular songs in to basic formulaic elements.

Dance music just has a slightly different formula but essentially the concepts are the same; too much diversity and we loose the ability to relate, too much similarity and we get bored, too much hi freq we get fatigue, not enough and we don't pay attention. These also follow on various focus scales; down to the a one bar loop, or the whole main verse (part after the main drop with trance for instance).

I grant that it's more diverse with EDM than with most pop, but still it's really quite staggering when you look at music in terms of these elements.

welcome to white noise, just put it on whenever you want people to go nuts

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN This is true but honestly the popular song formula you've touched is more than just high frequency shifts, but still just as simple in essence - in AE school we had to take a song writing class, and when broken down in terms of intellectualizing music, there's a few basic component themes that present in popular songs such contrast (diversity vs repetition) spread of frquency (notes) vs similarity, length of sections etc It's actually quite freaky how you can break down popular songs in to basic formulaic elements. Dance music just has a slightly different formula but essentially the concepts are the same; too much diversity and we loose the ability to relate, too much similarity and we get bored, too much hi freq we get fatigue, not enough and we don't pay attention. These also follow on various focus scales; down to the a one bar loop, or the whole main verse (part after the main drop with trance for instance). I grant that it's more diverse with EDM than with most pop, but still it's really quite staggering when you look at music in terms of these elements.

Class sounds interesting. Was there a text for the class? What college did you go to?

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

quote:

Originally posted by clay welcome to white noise, just put it on whenever you want people to go nuts

supersaws....

___________________
Tranceport is the best album ever....

There is nothing wrong with being musically diverse.

My Soundcloud

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux Class sounds interesting. Was there a text for the class? What college did you go to?

It was fucking great, especially considering it was Audio Engineering School.

I studies the producing and Engineering Program at the Harris Institute in Toronto. Best educational experience of my life bar none.

I think I just have my class notes but it was really fucking great. The teacher was a major canadian composer and arranger (juno winner etc) and he'd play some of his tracks and boil them right down to the decisions made about the simplicity vs diversity of notes, frequency content and structure in terms of arrangement.

Honestly, it was quite life changing (at least musically) to learn to think like that. I just wish i could remember half of it

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN It was fucking great, especially considering it was Audio Engineering School. I studies the producing and Engineering Program at the Harris Institute in Toronto. Best educational experience of my life bar none. I think I just have my class notes but it was really fucking great. The teacher was a major canadian composer and arranger (juno winner etc) and he'd play some of his tracks and boil them right down to the decisions made about the simplicity vs diversity of notes, frequency content and structure in terms of arrangement. Honestly, it was quite life changing (at least musically) to learn to think like that. I just wish i could remember half of it

Fuck, well at least you got to experience it.

Did your compositions get better as a result of taking that class?

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux Fuck, well at least you got to experience it. Did your compositions get better as a result of taking that class?

Yes, but I can't even begin to quantify the extent; I went from being what I thought was a decent DJ to a pretty well educated studio engineer in 1 year - and not just that, at any one time we were taking a minimum of 14 subjects like like sound, publishing, contracts and negotiations, electronics, studio engineering, basic web programming, Audio Technology, Recording, Mic technique, Artist Management, songwriting, composition, Music Video Producing and everything in between.

it was the most intense academic process I've ever been to (40-50 hours a week before homework) and worth every second.

having said that though, there was another quantum leap in education when I then though I was a decent studio engineer and went to work for a major composer at his studios.

Ouch.



as a side note: you gotta change your avatar. I keep thinking I'm talking to robby. I swear to god he should have copyright on that image by now.

We are nerds. I'm just saying. It's pretty nice. Have you guys ever read Robert Jourdain?

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux Ever since I have read the "Hit Theory" chapter in the book "Mixing with Your Mind" the idea that there is a hit formula has really interested me. In the book Paul mentions there's at least 7 factors that all popular music has in common from music that ranges from Beethoven's 5th all the way to The Archies - Sugar Sugar. In virtually every popular song, and I do mean popular and not "in the same vein as a popular song", predictable changes in high frequency content will propel the song. In a typical Verse-Chorus-Verse-Chorus-Bridge-Chorus format the verse will have a lower amount of energy while the chorus has more. In this typical pop structure the change in high frequencies make it easy to hear a structural change. If there isn't a shift in high frequencies the song will sound flat and lifeless. Dance music can be different because energy doesn't "gear shift" as dramatically, but ramps up, then breaks down, then ramps up again. There are dance tunes that are structured similarly to a Verse-Chorus popular song, and those can have "gear shifts" rather than "ramps." High frequency content is built up, and is only reduced so that it can be raise again for dramatic effect or to end a song.

I agree a great example of this is The Saturdays - Ego.

Check it.

___________________
Nothing lasts, nothing lasts, everything is changing into something else. Nothing is wrong, nothing is wrong, everything is on track...

You know, William Blake said... uh, nothing is lost. Nothing is lost and I... I really believe that, we only move on...

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux Ever since I have read the "Hit Theory" chapter in the book "Mixing with Your Mind" the idea that there is a hit formula has really interested me....

Thanks for this post. Really interesting to think about. Would these be some EDM examples of what you're talking about?:

From 1:00 to 1:45



Coming out of the break at 1:45ish the track is an entire octave up:

quote:

Originally posted by jayxthekoolest Thanks for this post. Really interesting to think about. Would these be some EDM examples of what you're talking about?: From 1:00 to 1:45 Coming out of the break at 1:45ish the track is an entire octave up:

One of the most solid examples in EDM is Darude - Sandstorm. That song made it fucking huge back in the day and people still recognize it as a "classic."

It goes:

Intro Break Chorus1 Break Chorus2 Outro.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.