Alright so once again I present to you a very standard sounding kick/bass line with a basic boring pluck sequence.

But what I'm realizing about trance is yes contrast is important, you definitely don't want all "bright" sounds. But the warm and dark sounds always seem like the easy part. You add them in there just to have the contrast with the bright sounds. However, it seems the bright sounds are the most important part of the track.

And what I notice usually is the brighter something sounds, at the lowest volume possible, usually the better it will go with the track. Right here in this thread is a simple kick/bass line. Everything except the mid bass seems to be at a decent volume to me. I think the mid can be lowered or moreso will need to be lowered to get another sound in there.

However, I tried adding a pad to this mix and I find that NO warm pads work. I find that with a lot of my mixes actually where the mid bass tends to dominate most of the mid/hi frequencies and then every sound I add afterwards needs to be as bright as it possibly can in order to cut through the mix.

But this is becoming bullshit. I'm also missing a decent crunchy percussion line... but where the hell is the room? If I want to add a pad, a perc line, and maybe one more distorted phasing saw somewhere in there (for more groove) what am I suppose to do? Do I have to lower the mid bass that much to make room for all these sounds?

It seems impossible most the time once I have a standard mix like this to find sounds that are bright enough to cut through the mix. If I want a pad like I said its going to NEED to be superbright. If I want a more noticeable and groovy percline, I'm going to need the brightest percs I can find once again just to get the sounds to cut through the mix. If I don't use superbright sounds, my mixes tend to always sound low and just not there in terms of presence. But to get 3 more sounds into this track, what do I do lower the mid bass like 6db (its already at -6 that would be like -12)? Its going to need to be alot and this is what pisses me off. I'm going to wind up dropping all of my sounds so low so that the mix sounds full, but all the individual elements are superlow.

I DO NOT once again understand how the fuck pros do it. I'm really thinking they just understand how to produce certain tones that are always guaranteed to cut through a mix. And I also find these sounds to be hardest to make. Like some of the disorted saw/noise (sometimes sync) basses that dance around in the back of a lot of uplifting trance tunes, those sounds are fucking hard as shit to make. I don't understand how pros are getting these absurdly bright sounds into their mixes. But if anything at least I feel like I'm learning more about trance. It really is so much about 2 different things. One, finding sounds that mesh together. And two, finding sounds that are bright enough to be turned down A LOT, but still sound loud at low volumes. Everytime I listen to pro tracks its always 1-2 extremely bright sounds that seem to carry around the entire mix and all the warmer sounds. But if those sounds aren't made right, the mix is not going to sound right no matter what imo.

heres the mix:
Trying to get my mid bass loud by user2983496


ps. I also know how important arrangement is and general song writing but theres no point of being concerned about song writing unless one is able to make sounds like above in the first place (by above I don't mean the mix I mean the explanation in the text lol).

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Last edited by DJ Robby Rox on Sep-24-2011 at 05:51

trance producers always seem to use that same weak ass kick drum

quote:

Originally posted by jupiterone trance producers always seem to use that same weak ass kick drum

Kickdrum sounds fine to me

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Cut your highs on that mid bass. Sounds way too bright.

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quote:

Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox However, I tried adding a pad to this mix and I find that NO warm pads work. I find that with a lot of my mixes actually where the mid bass tends to dominate most of the mid/hi frequencies and then every sound I add afterwards needs to be as bright as it possibly can in order to cut through the mix.

nah.

it actually sounds very, very nice robbie. send it over to me if you want, I'd like to see what I can do with it

If you put a limiter on the Master Bus you can squeeze more elements in without going over 0dB digital level.

It'll automatically squash the dynamics to make room, however if it starts to sound too congested you need to ease some of the levels down.

Kick drums and basslines take up most of the sound energy. But you'll find pads and leads don't really move the sound meters that much.

You'll find sidechain compression used a lot on dance tracks, and that's also a trick to keep the overall mix energy loud but still find room to bring in more elements in.

Some try to make room for elements using EQ but it's better just choosing leads and pads that already go well with the mix with minimal extra tweaking.

Because your bassline is a continuous running type, it does take up a lot of room in the mix. You can do stuff like take away some of the notes in the sequence, when introducing other trance elements, in order to make room, but also to make your baseline less repetitive. You can even use a low-pass filter to dull the bassline before introducing new elements.

If you are using reverb on your bassline, you should filter off the lower frequencies from the reverb, so that your mix does not become muddy.

The obvious thing to do is automate volumes and filters in order to allow room for any subsequent sounds joining in.
Your mid roller here is very harmonically rich meaning much of the spectrum is already being filled.


Kysora - I get your point from the other thread about rollers being as integral and at home as power chords in rock. But one reason I find them a bit dissapointing is that they often tend to be so damned bright for me ears - just personal I guess.

Trance is very hard to do well and do originally imo. So Robiie your frustrations are to be expected I think.

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this sounds like shit

quote:

Originally posted by TranceElevation this sounds like shit

Even if it did sound like shit (and it doesn't), comments like these are genuinely unhelpful.

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I think the mid bass sounds a little too loud to my ears. I also have this problem, as I tend to over-feature the bass and don't leave room for the pads, plucks, etc.

Try throwing an LPF on that guy and automate it down as the lead pluck comes in. Conversely, the lead pluck can have an LPF filtering up as the mid bass filters down.

While I share your frustrations, take solace in the fact that you are way closer to a good recipe than I have yet to be. This sounds better than you think it does. I can hear every element rather clearly (on my headphones), albeit the levels need to be adjusted slightly. Keep fudging with the kick/bass levels, because even slight reductions there can yield significant headroom in the upper frequencies.

Keep it up man, you're almost there!

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i think the biggest offender is the fact it sounds like stuff you would call generic in 2003. When alphazone did it then for some reason, everyone had to copy it over and over and over for almost a decade it seems. Your mix is much better than the actual music. So focus perhaps on the music now.

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quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker Even if it did sound like shit (and it doesn't), comments like these are genuinely unhelpful.

seriously. why the fuck do we let people like this continue posting here? if all you can do is put people down for having the same hobby as you, without offering any sort of help, you shouldn't be here.