scot project hardly ever uses that form so maybe check his stuff out.

he usually has different opening sections then a breakdown that brings all the parts together and the drop which is never just a rehash of the intro.

___________________
"This is why Superman works alone." GC
old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
Mad For Brad's gay little contest

There's a hell of a lot you can do with a basic A-B-A form so I wouldn't focus so much on deviating away from that if you want to go for something unorthodox. Best example I can think of is one of my older tracks, Cloudrunning:

http://soundcloud.com/kysora/kysora-cloud-running

I think somewhere around 1:22 I completely drop that bell synth and change up the bass at the same time I bring in that airy chord pattern.

They're all part of the same chord pattern, and by the end of the buildup they play together, so I guess they could technically be considered part of the same A section, but it's done in a way that abruptly changes up the buildup mid-way through. It's still varied enough to be interesting without deviating too far away from the overall theme of the track.

If that makes sense, I dunno. It's hard to explain and it's kind of specific to my music.

i think he means A B A in that generic sense where you have the intro material , a break , then the same intro material with no deviation. Most dance music is like that. I remember it was about 2002 when people stopped having a drop that incorporated something different and additional and it made sense because at the time, melodies where way too abundant and the breakdowns where out of control.

all dance music is A B A if you reduce it but within those parts you can get creative.

___________________
"This is why Superman works alone." GC
old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
Mad For Brad's gay little contest

What's worse, a lot of tracks I hear these days it seems more like A-A-A than A-B-A

They start with the basics, build up to a break, use pretty much the same melody in the break with a maybe an extra phrase tacked on, then a buildup which drops right back into the intro.

While I do like the concept of build and break (would it be considered trance otherwise?), I still feel like there's plenty of room for more creative transitions and contrasting sections. Why can't a melodic breakdown build back up to a completely unexpected sound transformation?

It seems like The A-B-A (or A-A-A if you see it that way) is a cop out on creativity. Sure it's much harder to drop into a completely different phrase and make it sound good, but it's got to make for an awesome opportunity to do something new IMO.

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i think people are scared to try anything very different in case it dont get heard ect.

i personally like it when a producer covers his his/hers tracks in a track because it shows some effort went into it

quote:

Originally posted by cl0ckw3rk What's worse, a lot of tracks I hear these days it seems more like A-A-A than A-B-A They start with the basics, build up to a break, use pretty much the same melody in the break with a maybe an extra phrase tacked on, then a buildup which drops right back into the intro. While I do like the concept of build and break (would it be considered trance otherwise?), I still feel like there's plenty of room for more creative transitions and contrasting sections. Why can't a melodic breakdown build back up to a completely unexpected sound transformation? It seems like The A-B-A (or A-A-A if you see it that way) is a cop out on creativity. Sure it's much harder to drop into a completely different phrase and make it sound good, but it's got to make for an awesome opportunity to do something new IMO.

If you're already 2/3rds of the way through a track, brand new lead smacked down in your lap will probably sound bad. The big drop has to be prepped to one degree or another. Maybe there's an exception where it can sound good? I don't know, but I've never heard of it...

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quote:

Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux If you're already 2/3rds of the way through a track, brand new lead smacked down in your lap will probably sound bad. The big drop has to be prepped to one degree or another. Maybe there's an exception where it can sound good? I don't know, but I've never heard of it...

I wish I were 2/3rds of the way done. Questions like this kind of slow the momentum...I think for the sake of finishing a track for once I'm going to take the easy way out and stick with A-B-A just to get it out of my system. I don't think I have any business implementing something new when I haven't even done what's already been done.

However, if anybody does have examples, I'd still love to hear them for future reference.

BTW, I know I was being vague to begin with, but I'm not talking about introducing another lead, but essentially taking the one you have and "transcending" it, a.k.a morphing it, so it's almost unrecognizable but induces a better euphoria at the drop than if you just looped it to the beginning of the same breakdown melody.

I need to find an example...I'm sure this doesn't just exist in my imagination. Maybe I'm erring on psytrance now?

___________________
There are two secrets to success: 1. Never tell everything you know.

the main lead after the build is right from the motive presented in the intro. But you get a complete melody instead of just the motive. Alot of dance tracks do it. well used to.

Here is a classic



this one is pretty neat, You get a break which you think goes to the drop which it does but just the first part, then you get a build later on.

___________________
"This is why Superman works alone." GC
old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
Mad For Brad's gay little contest

Last edited by Looney4Clooney on Oct-10-2011 at 21:31

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux If you're already 2/3rds of the way through a track, brand new lead smacked down in your lap will probably sound bad. The big drop has to be prepped to one degree or another. Maybe there's an exception where it can sound good? I don't know, but I've never heard of it...

Best example I can think of, the section at the second half of the breakdown has almost nothing to do with the first half or the intro before it. It's pretty incredible.