dynamic?

I keep hearing mastered tracks vs unmastered tracks and it seems to me that I'm seeing a lot of similarities in how people treat their basslines.

First what I'm seeing is I guess because bass is the first thing to distort so many people are intentionally distorting their bass to get the volume they want. But what I hear basially are very point/plucky kicks, with basslines squashed to living fuck, and then they focus on making all their other sounds more dynamic.

So since employing this strategy of not caring how dynamic my bass is, I see I can get my mixes wayyy louder, and if you have enough dynamics in your synths/drums it doesn't seem to even matter?

I mean what kind of dynamic range do you aim for in your basslines? Does anyone else compensate this way and push their basslines then try to leave other things more dynamic? I think I will have to submit an example really to show what I mean. I got off today so I'm going to squash the hell out of a bassline on purpose, add some other more dynamic instruments and see if you people even notice the bass is fucked.


edit: I should have phrased this a bit differently. I think what I mean is its way more obvious to see when people are squashing their synths/fxs and what not but when they do it to the bass it seems a lot less obvious. Like a producer can tell immediately but from hearing track after track after track it almost seems mandatory to some degree that you squash your bassline. I know taste is a very relative thing but I love loud bass as anyone knows and there seems to be no other way to really go about it.

And no its not like I didn't realize this happening years ago I think what I'm aiming for more is a discussion on what other people do to their bass in terms of compression.

___________________
Sequencers: FL Studio 9XXL & Reason 3.
Main Synth Bass GTs - Pro-53, V-Station, Sytrus, Subtractor, Trilian, Blue, Sylenth & Z3ta.
Main Synth Lead/Pad GTs - Z3ta, Sytrus, Sylenth, Vangard, Albino & Nexus.
Main FXs GTs - Waves Plugins, Soundtoys, Volcano, FL Native FX.
Hardware - Truths, Echo Audiofire, Virus Snow, & Novation Xio Midi-Synth.

Last edited by DJ Robby Rox on Oct-28-2011 at 19:38

the bigger your bass, the less overall volume you get. Rather basic. I don't think you are actually hearing what is going on. The distortion is a way of making your bass seem louder even tough it is perceptual. By boosting the overtones, you make the base seem louder while allowing headrrom to squash the rest of you track to get your track super loud and cool. ANd for that reason that bass is the thing that determines how much louder you can go, any peak will set the maximum level so people are going to make sure the bass has 0 peaks thus as you said squashed.

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Last edited by Looney4Clooney on Oct-28-2011 at 19:53

I'm not talking sub bass I'm talking more mid bass. You don't really need loud sub bass imo to feel it in a mix. But say Aly & Fila for example, all their mid basses sound different from their synths and fxs. Very different in terms of dynamic range.

Unless I am just wrong then I am wrong. But it sounds like they purposely squash their mid basses wayy beyond the extent they do it to say their synths or fxs. This could very well be complete misinterpretation of what I'm hearing but let me go grab the specific track that made me make this thread..

___________________
Sequencers: FL Studio 9XXL & Reason 3.
Main Synth Bass GTs - Pro-53, V-Station, Sytrus, Subtractor, Trilian, Blue, Sylenth & Z3ta.
Main Synth Lead/Pad GTs - Z3ta, Sytrus, Sylenth, Vangard, Albino & Nexus.
Main FXs GTs - Waves Plugins, Soundtoys, Volcano, FL Native FX.
Hardware - Truths, Echo Audiofire, Virus Snow, & Novation Xio Midi-Synth.

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney the bigger your bass, the less overall volume you get. Rather basic. I don't think you are actually hearing what is going on. The distortion is a way of making your bass seem louder even tough it is perceptual. By boosting the overtones, you make the base seem louder while allowing headrrom to squash the rest of you track to get your track super loud and cool. ANd for that reason that bass is the thing that determines how much louder you can go, any peak will set the maximum level so people are going to make sure the bass has 0 peaks thus as you said squashed.

Fuck I'm confused.

So is persistently trying to push my mid bass just always going to fuck me in the end? I usually peak my mid bass at -8 but thats before its bussed where it can come up to -4 with my kick. I keep doing this over and over should I be aiming for less with my mid bass in terms of volume? Just speaking in terms of an avg full mix whats a good peak to aim for for those overtones or the loudest part of the midbass?

The reason I ask is I've always had a problem with where the fuck my mid bass should be in terms of volume. When its low I always want it to be louder but obviously when its loud then I want other sounds to be louder. Its so hard to find a balance in trance and I definitely suffer from a obsessive loudness type of syndrome. My tracks no matter what though never seem to be as loud as pros even now with assuming that I know what I'm doing.

M4B do you have FL Studio? I never asked you this before but if there was anyway you could take a look at one of my tracks just to tell me what idiot mistakes I'm making it would be extremely helpful. Or maybe I'll just take pics of everything but I can not set my levels right for shit it seems.

___________________
Sequencers: FL Studio 9XXL & Reason 3.
Main Synth Bass GTs - Pro-53, V-Station, Sytrus, Subtractor, Trilian, Blue, Sylenth & Z3ta.
Main Synth Lead/Pad GTs - Z3ta, Sytrus, Sylenth, Vangard, Albino & Nexus.
Main FXs GTs - Waves Plugins, Soundtoys, Volcano, FL Native FX.
Hardware - Truths, Echo Audiofire, Virus Snow, & Novation Xio Midi-Synth.

i prefer to cut my bass because in the final mix, it constricts the overall volume of the track.

when i run a compressor over my tracks you can definitely tell a shitty mastered track from a good one.

besides, its better to cut the bass and boost it later, leaving you with more headroom.

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synths could be considered the voice of EDM. so compressing the shit out of synths would be quite noticeable. Would make sense not to compress that part as much. Generally, the highs and the lows are the things that get compressed heavily. Doing that to mids will sound annoying.

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old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
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/\ Did not know that thats a great tip thanks. I always squash my mids and his in my bass and I'm thinking a multiband compressor may be the missing link here. I use it on my kick/bass bus but not on my bass channel by itself so after I cut the lows usually the entire bass is pretty squashed. I'm just trying to learn how to compressor better is what it is really. So I think I'll start by less compression on the mids and more on the his that will likely explain why my basses always sound so unorganic.

___________________
Sequencers: FL Studio 9XXL & Reason 3.
Main Synth Bass GTs - Pro-53, V-Station, Sytrus, Subtractor, Trilian, Blue, Sylenth & Z3ta.
Main Synth Lead/Pad GTs - Z3ta, Sytrus, Sylenth, Vangard, Albino & Nexus.
Main FXs GTs - Waves Plugins, Soundtoys, Volcano, FL Native FX.
Hardware - Truths, Echo Audiofire, Virus Snow, & Novation Xio Midi-Synth.

Last edited by DJ Robby Rox on Oct-28-2011 at 20:14

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox Fuck I'm confused. So is persistently trying to push my mid bass just always going to fuck me in the end? I usually peak my mid bass at -8 but thats before its bussed where it can come up to -4 with my kick. I keep doing this over and over should I be aiming for less with my mid bass in terms of volume? Just speaking in terms of an avg full mix whats a good peak to aim for for those overtones or the loudest part of the midbass?

well i don't really prescribe to the + 1 dbfs rms levels others do. Mid bass , say 300 to 1k just so we are on the same page. Then no , I don't think you have to purposefully keep them quiet and controlled as you would a bass. Look at the FM curve. It still needs more energy to compete with 3 k but not that much like say 80 Hz. I think one of the mistakes alot of people make is cut way too much from this area. Too much and it is muddy, to little and it is thin and empty. The closer you get to the ears sweat spot, the more you want to be careful with compression. I don't know o, this is all conjecture. I would say a kick doesn't really need as much energy in this band but I also think synths do. It all depends. You have to also keep in mind that synths that are full bodied sound better. If your mid bass is taking all this space , then your synths might sound thin and harsh. And more often than not, the club pa will have a nice smiley face eq curve so that section is already being cut at the user level.

I personally hate it when people have say hihats that have no energy in an area they should have energy. You get producers that have 10 hihat patterns and highpass everything at 1k so it fit. THey don't sound like hihats. More like gay shakers. Shakers are for pussies. Have you ever seen someone pay a shaker ? Sometimes, they look like little eggs. Hippies loved shakers.

But its not rocket science. WHen you have the part with no synths, leave as is , when synths start to pile on, automate an eq. Nobody in a club ever says whoa dude, that is some killer mid bass. But without it, you will not hear the bass. I would use harmonics and acoustic wizardry to circumvent certain limitations.

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"This is why Superman works alone." GC
old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
Mad For Brad's gay little contest

Last edited by Looney4Clooney on Oct-28-2011 at 20:15

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney synths could be considered the voice of EDM. so compressing the shit out of synths would be quite noticeable. Would make sense not to compress that part as much. Generally, the highs and the lows are the things that get compressed heavily. Doing that to mids will sound annoying.

That being said, Vocals are one of the most compressed sounds in classic non-EDM mixdowns I believe.

also: shakers ftw.

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quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

You're overanalysing things. If you do thing X always, your tracks will always sound like X. If you're going to use a formulaic approach of always squashing and compressing everything and having bass peak at -Y dB etc. just because you don't want to have to listen to the actual track to determine what you actually should do, you should reconsider your approach.

quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja That being said, Vocals are one of the most compressed sounds in classic non-EDM mixdowns I believe. also: shakers ftw.

nope.Compressed, sure, more than anything else, nope.

___________________
"This is why Superman works alone." GC
old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
Mad For Brad's gay little contest