Paging the DJ/Producer folk on here..


When you buy your tracks on Beatport etc. Do you pay the extra fee to download them uncompressed, wav format?

My understanding is that the sound quality difference generally isn't that discernible in a club environment, due to the acoustic degradation in the club.

Ive always downloaded them in mp3, as I could never really tell the difference.

I imagine some of the more experienced producers on here could probably tell the difference, especially on a good set of monitors.


Thoughts?

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Wav is better of course. lossless uncompressed ftw.

As soon as you go to mp3, you instantly lose quality, regardless of the bitrate its encoded at. Think about it in terms of a stereo spectrum. You have wide left, wide right, and mono in the centre. Once you start moving further and further away from a lossless quality, you're shrinking that spectrum. Wide right and wide left aren't that wide anymore. Things won't sound as crisp as intended, and they won't necessarily fit in the mix as originally desired. At 320 it's not going to be that obvious, but go down to 160 or 128 (especially on a quality setup) and its certainly apparent.

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Last edited by LightsOut on Apr-17-2012 at 01:45

Oh yes, im well aware of that.

Whether or not this has some real world applicability (in a non studio environment) is what im after.

Ive played on some derelict club systems that would turn the most intricate angelic tune into an amplified subway tunnel fart. I dont see myself throwing down on any funktion 1's any time soon... so I wonder if it matters.

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quote:

At 320 it's not going to be super obvious, but go down to 192 or 160 its certainly apparent.

Not to sound lame but I cant tell the difference between a properly encoded 128 (not shit floating around the web in kazaa etc.) and a 320 or wav in home environment. I made a bet with my bro that ill be able to tell 128 from 320 but I failed )). I am sure you would fail too to guess consistently (e.g. 3 times in a row).

quote:

Originally posted by Vanos Not to sound lame but I cant tell the difference between a properly encoded 128 (not shit floating around the web in kazaa etc.) and a 320 or wav in home environment. I made a bet with my bro that ill be able to tell 128 from 320 but I failed )). I am sure you would fail too to guess consistently (e.g. 3 times in a row).

It depends what you're monitoring on. If you're using some cheap high-fi speakers or a pair of apple earbuds, it might not be super apparent. If you're using studio monitors or higher end headphones with a large frequency/stereo spectrum, it's pretty obvious imo.

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MATTY |

• Ambivalent - R U OK (Kasper is OK Mix)
  
• Do Santos - Menina
  
• Heartthrob - Baby Kate (Magda's "Where Is My Baby's Daddy" Mix)
  
• Danton Eeprom - To The Bone (Jamie Jones Deep Sea Dub Mix)
  
• Matt Nordstrom - Lucky Drawls (Mark Brooms No Rave Stab Mix)

quote:

Originally posted by Vanos Not to sound lame but I cant tell the difference between a properly encoded 128 (not shit floating around the web in kazaa etc.) and a 320 or wav in home environment. I made a bet with my bro that ill be able to tell 128 from 320 but I failed )). I am sure you would fail too to guess consistently (e.g. 3 times in a row).

yes you can, a trained ear can tell a 128, even i could tell.

it starts with 192 vbr when its most difficult to tell and anything above that is almost identical to the ear. 192 used to be the standard for ripping music years back, after our connections got faster it made no sense for someone to make anything less than 320.

WAV is obviously better but on paper, no mastering studio will accept an mp3 or any lossy format, only WAV.

to play in a club 320 mp3 is sufficient enough.



it's like comparing matroska video encoding to an xvid, although both are outstanding quality formats, xvid is 5times less in size, yes it is a lossy format but it's still great quality if used corectly.

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quote:

Originally posted by geroin to play in a club 320 mp3 is sufficient enough.

Agreed. Realistically, a properly encoded 320 and mastered mp3 will sound good on ANY system. The chances that you'd ever play (or anyone for that matter) on a setup where you can actually take full advantage of a lossless format and notice a discernible difference over a 320 mp3 is pretty remote.

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MATTY |

• Ambivalent - R U OK (Kasper is OK Mix)
  
• Do Santos - Menina
  
• Heartthrob - Baby Kate (Magda's "Where Is My Baby's Daddy" Mix)
  
• Danton Eeprom - To The Bone (Jamie Jones Deep Sea Dub Mix)
  
• Matt Nordstrom - Lucky Drawls (Mark Brooms No Rave Stab Mix)

Last edited by LightsOut on Apr-18-2012 at 14:34

I actually played MP3s on a Funktion One lol

The thing is that the difference occurs at the extremes of the frequency range, so in most systems its not noticeable. Another thing that I've been realizing though is that if you have pro DJ aspirations its probably best to just start buying WAVs. It's just so much more expensive though ugh

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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Levels is...decent...damn better than a lot of the shite dominating the charts at the moment. It sounds absolutely nothing like...a billion and one similar tracks in this big-room style. I always had a soft spot.

quote:

It depends what you're monitoring on. If you're using some cheap high-fi speakers or a pair of apple earbuds, it might not be super apparent. If you're using studio monitors or higher end headphones with a large frequency/stereo spectrum, it's pretty obvious imo.

well I listened to it both on speakers and on headphones. My speakers are so so (logitech z5500, i love them but they are only computer speakers not pro or anything) but I have nice audiophile Sennheiser DT990 Pro headphones (a 400$ pair). I couldnt tell the difference neither between 128 and 320 nor between 128 and WAV ))).

I used to brag I could but I cant. and a lot of ppl will say its obvious but it is not at all obvious once you are there on the spot trying to tell the difference )))

quote:

Originally posted by Vanos and a lot of ppl will say its obvious but it is not at all obvious once you are there on the spot trying to tell the difference )))

I'd agree with this. It's also going to depend on the particular track and how its mastered. If it's a very low end heavy track (which typically would have an emphasis on mono components), its going to be even less apparent.

Sidenote: I'm active on the ableton forum and a while ago there was a discussion about the use of stereo on club systems. Apparently a lot of places just go mono out of the house because its less of a headache to deal with tweaking and setup. I couldn't believe that. Some places also have these crazy setups (funktion one, dynaudio, etc), but don't take the time to actually properly utilize the system ie: line array speakers upfront and then just daisy chain a few additional speakers around where its convenient. mental.

___________________
MATTY |

• Ambivalent - R U OK (Kasper is OK Mix)
  
• Do Santos - Menina
  
• Heartthrob - Baby Kate (Magda's "Where Is My Baby's Daddy" Mix)
  
• Danton Eeprom - To The Bone (Jamie Jones Deep Sea Dub Mix)
  
• Matt Nordstrom - Lucky Drawls (Mark Brooms No Rave Stab Mix)

Last edited by LightsOut on Apr-17-2012 at 02:41

mp3s. To notice a difference I think is when you go from WAV to mp3 and then burning your cds back to WAV. Otherwise as said before, it would depend how the track is mastered. My recorder I use for gigs records at 128 but sounds pretty good (if I took a guess not knowing I would have thought 192 or something) but defintiely not 320. Who knows though, I've never actually tested myself

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