I love listening to Nick Warrens old mixes.

When he's in the middle of mixing two tracks, and they drift a bit. It's what makes the mix. It lives BECAUSE of the imperfection. It's real. It's got soul. It works. It's better.

A robot can play a guitar clinically, perfectly - but it doesn't touch you. A human plays a guitar and it stirs your soul.

Sorry. Just sayin!!

Ah here that's all a load of bollox.

Just because something has imperfections in it doesn't mean it's any more real than something that is a lot more flawless.

Back in the day you'd admire a mix that you knew was done on older equipment but was still flawless. The fact that computers are involved now just means my attention has now been shifted to pay closer attention to other aspects of dj'ing that i might not have given as much thought to previously.

A lot of dj's have become a lot more innovative with the technology around.

End of the day I know (being a dj) that my ears pick up on the slightest off beat during a transition. Yes it's lovely when everything is corrected swiftly and what not but some times a bad mix can continue on for quite some time and to me it's painful listening to it especially if it happens often during a mix.

Beat matching mistakes giving a mix soul. I think not. Track selection gives a mix soul.

Just sayin'

quote:

Originally posted by n3lly Ah here that's all a load of bollox. Just because something has imperfections in it doesn't mean it's any more real than something that is a lot more flawless. Back in the day you'd admire a mix that you knew was done on older equipment but was still flawless. The fact that computers are involved now just means my attention has now been shifted to pay closer attention to other aspects of dj'ing that i might not have given as much thought to previously. A lot of dj's have become a lot more innovative with the technology around. End of the day I know (being a dj) that my ears pick up on the slightest off beat during a transition. Yes it's lovely when everything is corrected swiftly and what not but some times a bad mix can continue on for quite some time and to me it's painful listening to it especially if it happens often during a mix. Beat matching mistakes giving a mix soul. I think not. Track selection gives a mix soul. Just sayin'

While you are right that track selection plays a key role, I also favor minor (!) drifting in mixes, not the type where it's clearly offbeat but the type when you hear small phase changes on the bass for example, it brings a bit dynamic to the beat during mixes. I think the instrument analogy fits perfectly here.

I mix digitally and I set the pitch by ear, where is your God now?

quote:

Originally posted by n3lly Ah here that's all a load of bollox. Just because something has imperfections in it doesn't mean it's any more real than something that is a lot more flawless. Back in the day you'd admire a mix that you knew was done on older equipment but was still flawless. The fact that computers are involved now just means my attention has now been shifted to pay closer attention to other aspects of dj'ing that i might not have given as much thought to previously. A lot of dj's have become a lot more innovative with the technology around. End of the day I know (being a dj) that my ears pick up on the slightest off beat during a transition. Yes it's lovely when everything is corrected swiftly and what not but some times a bad mix can continue on for quite some time and to me it's painful listening to it especially if it happens often during a mix. Beat matching mistakes giving a mix soul. I think not. Track selection gives a mix soul. Just sayin'

I'm not talking about trainwrecks!

This is a great example (at the beginning) of a drifting mix, and I honestly think that it adds 'something' to the mix. Fucking awesome track too!

that's not drifting, that's horrible dj work. I thought you meant minute changes in the phase gradually happening over several bars, which indeed is very pleasing. That just was a sub-par transition.

it puzzles me that the soul you find in music happens at the transition of 2 tracks that more or less are quantized via a sequencer. I understand how djing somehow seems less fun but i think if anything, the one thing lost was the performance aspect of playing something that looked like an instrument. Like playing electronic drums versus real drums. One looks better and feels better.

Beat matching is not a musical process. It is technical. You are either aligned that you don't get phase distortion that sounds like you just slammed a phaser on your chain or you aren't. I don't see the soul in applying the same effect on a transition. I don't see any parallel between that and the human inconsistencies which for many musicians were intentional and added to what they did. There are plenty of musicians that make mistakes we would just consider bad musicians. Train wrecking to me is like a drummer with bad timing. It is human but it isn't ever good.

I think a dj can be much more expressive and less of a jukebox. I don't think djs take advantage of this as much as they could because most djs focus on the production and djing is just the part where they get paid. If djs were hired on their djing ability, i think you would start seing alot more djs approaching it as a musician might but considering the dance scene is one of hype where your productions get your bookings to do something completely separate from production, things will not really change and the technology that allows one to do interesting thing is not being exploited.

The visual aspect i honestly can't defend. The motions one made with real turntables just looked better. And that counts when you are doing a live performance.

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Last edited by Looney4Clooney on Aug-31-2012 at 14:16

quote:

Originally posted by itsamemario that's not drifting, that's horrible dj work. I thought you meant minute changes in the phase gradually happening over several bars, which indeed is very pleasing. That just was a sub-par transition.

It used to be said that the skill of a DJ was the art of correction.

by who ?

it is a skill, i wouldn't say art, and it similar to say tuning a guitar. There is a guitar that is in tune, and then there is a guitar that is not in tune. Do you listen to a guitar line and say damn, that is nice tuning ? I suppose a guitarist might notice the intonation as tuning is actually a hard thing to do in a live setting as the design of the instrument has limitations making it never in tune for all chords and positions. But that is a technical observation.

I personally found beatmatching in the days of vinyl a prerequisite that was rather easy and something I would not expect anyone to find impressive. It is the minimum standard. Like someone playing a scale in tune. That isn't art , it isn't impressive. It is the bare minimum of what someone might consider competent and merely at a technical lavel.

But an actual fan of music ? Do these things register or matter other than getting in the way of the actual music. I doubt it. I think you also doubt it. Maybe i'm wrong

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quote:

Originally posted by Jarvmeister It used to be said that the skill of a DJ was the art of correction.

Bullshit. The skill of a DJ is in not making the mistake in the first place. That statement is such nonsense omgwtf.

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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Levels is...decent...damn better than a lot of the shite dominating the charts at the moment. It sounds absolutely nothing like...a billion and one similar tracks in this big-room style. I always had a soft spot.

quote:

Originally posted by Jarvmeister A robot can play a guitar clinically, perfectly - but it doesn't touch you. A human plays a guitar and it stirs your soul.

How can you not realise how absolutely bizarre it is to use that logic with electronic music? All those classic dance records you love have no "soul" because they weren't played by human hand, but programmed by sequencer. If people had your mentality thirty years ago, modern dance music would not exist.

Vinyl mixing had a thrill to it because it was hard. That much is undeniable. When you hear minor errors in a vinyl mix it's exhilirating because it makes you realise that the entire thing can go off the rails at any moment, and that makes the good transitions more exciting. That's very much an issue of performance though. Dance music, due to its creative methodology, lacked any kind of conventional performance, and the DJ stepped up to the plate and filled in the old-school ideas of technical skill and having someone on stage to look at.

Ultimately though, the ideal of electronic music is to remove manual skill from the equation to unlock unlimited creative potential.

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part of what made electronic music so cool was that it had no soul. I mean you had the 70s, filled with soul and then you had this movement that was not human. And that was weird at the time and that made it unique and interesting.

I mean there are all types but not everything has to groove or have soul. I think when you intend to make a groovy track and it doesn't groove, then you have a problem, but when you aren't trying to sound human, well it was different and i don't think that made it bad.

I think part of what made djs so special back in the day was that it was mysterious. You didn't know what they were doing, and that made it special. And it was a huge cultural movement and being apart of those things adds to it. To be able to say, ya, i was at that party where so and so did so and so. It is historic and similar to say being able to see a great band when they were starting.

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"This is why Superman works alone." GC
old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
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