So I've arrived at a fork the production road, and wanted to get opinion.

I find it hard to be confident not to add layers.
To give a specific example I made what I think is a decent chorus loop just out of 1 plucky synth and one saw pad the other night for a progressive 'mainroom' (sorry for that) track.

Now is the point where I get the urge to start adding layers to the pads and the leed synth. But it already sounds good, so I am felling conflicted whether to not follow my usual instinct to add layers to the main synth parts.



So here's the issue; I now feel in order to 'be like a pro' I OUGHT to be now adding quiet far panned layers of pads, with the usual tricks such as slightly offsetting their timing, because if I don't I will be being lazy / unpro / not making enough effort / KIDDING MYSELF I CAN HAVE A SATISFYING DROP WITHOUT ALL THE USUAL LAYERING EFFORTS.

I will surely be missing out on all the aural space trickery wont I if I don't add in the subtle 3 d sonic wizardry?


Is it possible to make an uplifting progressive track where the core chorus / drop part just has a couple of synths, bass and some drums? Or will I get found out?


SPECIFICALLY - will it show if I have not added all these other little quiet layers that add up to something akin to sonic magic?

My brain is severely imprinted with the sorts of uplifting trance found on Above&beyond tracks from around 2009-2012, and I've seen those producers imply a GOOD song needs to have dozens of tracks, sends, groups and God knows what.

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Last edited by Richard Butler on Aug-03-2015 at 11:46

Its a difficult question to answer, you seem set on being a pro and if your using Above & Beyond a reference then, simply guessing, i would say add more stuff, make it more louderer

when you talk about "getting found it", isnt that in itself compromising what you are doing??

we would be on very different paths i think so im not sure my advice is much use to you, but thats my 2c Richard

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I'll think of a way of making my question clearer, my OP is lame.

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It´s quite simple. If it sounds good why change it? The thing with layering is that can do wonders but that´s not always the case. Every "pro" tutorial brings up layering as the "pro" thing to do, when that ´s absolutely not that case.

You either have confidence or you don't. I don't really know how you could learn it.

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less is more

quote:

Originally posted by soulstar606 less is more

+1. And, I'll add:

K.I.S.S.

It's not how many you have, it's what you do with the ones you have.

I think most young producers way overestimate how much layering of synths is actually done in most pro tracks. Vocals and guitars are often layered to get a wall of sound or huge stereo width, but synths don't require much (if any) layering to sound huge or wide. Hell, we spend much of our time EQ'ing, panning, and balancing them to make them less huge so that they don't consume too much of the mix.

As for me, I'm not really a pro in the sense that we're talking here and I'm probably more of a minimalist than most EDM producers, but I rarely use more than 6-8 synth parts in any song. I try to get the most mileage out of each synth and keep them from stepping all over each other. If a synth part isn't doing something that I can hear, or is just cluttering up the mix, then it's taking away from the parts that I want to be heard, so I usually just get rid of it. Oh, and people almost never accuse me of not having enough stereo width - quite the contrary, actually.

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Last edited by cryophonik on Aug-04-2015 at 18:39

let me expand on what i said.....i said less is more....

so in regards to the OP, and being confident in your decisions..........the best way to do this is to limit the number of decisions you need to make.......you want to avoid this pattern where you immediately add ten parts to your mix, just because...and immediately add 3 melodies and two different layers to them...and 5 supersaws layers with 5 different midi tracks...etc.....this is wrong.......because youve immediately crreated this huge mess of decisions that you now have to make.

so it becomes impossible to be confident in them all....beause you
ve lost control of your mix

the only way to be confident is to streamline your mix...and focus on a few main working parts...don't just add parts...like a pad because you think trance music is s\upposed to have pads....., take some time and think about adding parts......these are huge changes to your mix....its hard to get aout of control working in a daw....think abuot it...every time you add a 3 note triad chord pad into your mix you'v just sucked "x amount of volts" from your gainstage

you've got a big pie that is your gainstage...it has x amount of Volts in it......its up to you to distribute that voltage between your tracks...maximize it and learn to ration it out right.............so when people talk about 100s of layers thats fine....but everyone has the same overall limit.....theres only so much sonic info that you can squish into your mix.....you can beef this up using compression but only so far....we all have the same limit...it's up to you to solve the puzzle

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik +1. And, I'll add: K.I.S.S. It's not how many you have, it's what you do with the ones you have. I think most young producers way overestimate how much layering of synths is actually done in most pro tracks. Vocals and guitars are often layered to get a wall of sound or huge stereo width, but synths don't require much (if any) layering to sound huge or wide. Hell, we spend much of our time EQ'ing, panning, and balancing them to make them less huge so that they don't consume too much of the mix. As for me, I'm not really a pro in the sense that we're talking here and I'm probably more of a minimalist than most EDM producers, but I rarely use more than 6-8 synth parts in any song. I try to get the most mileage out of each synth and keep them from stepping all over each other. If a synth part isn't doing something that I can hear, or is just cluttering up the mix, then it's taking away from the parts that I want to be heard, so I usually just get rid of it. Oh, and people almost never accuse me of not having enough stereo width - quite the contrary, actually.

Yes, since making this thread I've been paying close attention to all sorts of tracks such as hit pop songs and you are right, it's getting the utmost out of few parts. Listening to some classic 80's / 90's tracks and you get a solo done on a harmonica or something (Chakka Khan) which ends up so profound and memorable.

I am trying to play parts better as a result of this, for example say a 16 bar piano 'loop'.

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quote:

Originally posted by soulstar606 let me expand on what i said.....i said less is more.... so in regards to the OP, and being confident in your decisions..........the best way to do this is to limit the number of decisions you need to make.......you want to avoid this pattern where you immediately add ten parts to your mix, just because...and immediately add 3 melodies and two different layers to them...and 5 supersaws layers with 5 different midi tracks...etc.....this is wrong.......because youve immediately crreated this huge mess of decisions that you now have to make. so it becomes impossible to be confident in them all....beause you ve lost control of your mix

Wow that is me right there.
I think it stems from reading a tutorial by some Finish trance producer (well known but I forget his name) where he had this checklist of hundreds of points and something like 70 tracks within each song.

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quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler Wow that is me right there. I think it stems from reading a tutorial by some Finish trance producer (well known but I forget his name) where he had this checklist of hundreds of points and something like 70 tracks within each song.

Yeah, I gave up with the "more tracks = better" mentality a while back and havn't looked back. It was seriously holding me back.

I don't claim to be even half as experienced a producer as you, but all my best songs tended to have a few extremely synergistic tracks and some supporting / transitional ones. Usually when I start "cramming" the track count, the track goes down a dark path because the base elements just are not there and no amount of lipstick on a pig is going to save that.

quote:

Originally posted by Zak McKracken When it comes to confidence too?

For a man to achieve all that is demanded of him he must regard himself as greater than he is.