i just read this, thought some people would find it interesting.

Democracy means drift; it means permision given to each part of an organism to do just what it pleases; it means the lapse of coherence and interdependance, the enthronment of liberty and chaos. It means the impossibility of great men - how could great men submit to the indignities and indecencies of an election?...How can the superman arise in such a soil? And how can a nation become great when its greatest men lie unused, discouraged, perhaps unknown. ... Not the superior man but the majority man becomes the ideal and the model; everybody comes the resemble everybody else.

Freidrich Nietzche

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Wave is to particle as zero is to one as bagpipes are to modem noises.

Hmmmmm. That kind of explains why Nietzshe is said to be one of the ideological "fathers" of facism. Indeed, you could interpret this paragraph as a call for a society of hierarchy (based on the "greatness" of every1), with greatest man at the top. I think we all agree that "great men" on top aren't always the healthiest way of being governed (just open your history book or think of the current talks about a possible Iraq invasion). Furthermore we need a general consensus on the definition of "greatness". What is to be considered when calling some great or not great. What this paragraph states basically is that not every1 in society is equal, a world view that has said to be overcome years before Nietsche's philosohies, during the French Revolution. Also I dont believe in "models", in the perfect human being.Last but not least it is the country that is in fact the "most democratic" on earth which is also the "greatest" (econoically at least)..so...a little disprove(sic)

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"Those are my principles, if you don't like them... well, I have others.”

Well let's be honest, Neitzche was never what you might call an optimist. Though he does have a point, even if his view was limited. The greatest of accomplishments in history have all come from societies controlled by one person, or a small group, who had absolute power. Whether these were 'great' men is all a matter of opinion.

As for loss of freedom, I think he was reffering more to how in a democratic society major decision must meet with the approval of a majority (what ever number that may be) of the populace. Because of that many hard, but necessary decisions end up mired in what ammounts to syntax errors (if you don't know what I mean watch CSpan or CPac for an hour or two and you'll get my drift).

He was also speaking to a phenomenon that many governments and nations are dealing with. How to get honest people to come forward for public office. Anyone who possess the traits we would call great is far better served to stay in the private sector. Once you throw your hat into the ring these days you automatically throw away all claims to a private life. The media are so hungry for any scandal to up their ratings that many potentially great men and women are forced to bow out of the public eye over minor infractions of their society's 'moral code'. You then end up, not with the better candidate to run the nation, but the person who is better able to hide their indiscretions and side step any media flak (a la Bill Clinton/Jean Chretien). This is also why there is increasing support for paying elected officials more, to lure them away from the private sector.

Personally I don't give Neitzche too much weight. He was a wise man, but very depressing. I need a little light in my day...

Cheers,
Fats

hey, i like to shit in my pants when i'm sleeping at night! oops! wrong thread

i'm glad some people could take the time to respond to that. i wasn't agreeing with him, per se, but i thought it was an interesting take on the subject. another nietzche quote:

'in love and in revenge, woman is more barbarous than man.'

heh, buddy knew what he was talking about..

i agree with you fats, in that there is too much concentration on leaders' private life. it seems that we've lost sight of running a country, and instead would rather run a media circus. oh well.. glad i'm not going into politics.

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Wave is to particle as zero is to one as bagpipes are to modem noises.

"... democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and
contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal
security or the rights of property; and have in general been
as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths."
-Sir James Madison

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Courageous, untroubled, mocking and violent; that is what Wisdom wants us to be. Wisdom is a woman, and loves only a warrior.
--Friedrich Nietzsche