Well teachers are overpaid, IMO. Maybe if they actually did a good job... but I doubt that's going to happen anytime soon. I went to one of the best public schools in the country, and they were retards. I can only imagine how bad it is in inner city school districts.

I wouldn't say that the teachers are doing such a bad job, compared to the other countries, as much as the program is bad. I've been in public schools in Croatia and the US, and I really can say that your educational system isn't very good, because at the end of 8th grade, an US kid knows as much as an average european or japanese kid at the end of 6th grade. The quality of the teachers is pretty much the same here and there, not very good though. It seems to me that the croatian teachers know more, while the US ones tend to be more active with kids.

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Originally posted by Arbiter Well teachers are overpaid, IMO. Maybe if they actually did a good job... but I doubt that's going to happen anytime soon. I went to one of the best public schools in the country, and they were retards. I can only imagine how bad it is in inner city school districts.

This its got nothing to do wether Bush's comment helps or not the education. If, like you said, which is not at all true, that teachers are overpaid, maan, your lucky, if you've got a degree allready. Theres no incentive for good teachers to be teachers if they are going to get paid CRAP. If they get paid less, the results are ... the worst education on the world, undeveloped country kind of education. And yes, kidds in the USA are not as smart as kidds from other countries ( we all know ) .. and thats because of the EDUCATION SYSTEM of this country, not the teachers, teachers just obey what has to be done.

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Originally posted by LiquidX Now, yesterday, ironically, comes up and says that class sizes will only be reduces by cutting the teachers salary

the only logical explination i can see for this is that by reducing the teachers salary a school district could higher more teachers for the same budget, thus having smaller class sizes.

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Originally posted by LiquidX This its got nothing to do wether Bush's comment helps or not the education. If, like you said, which is not at all true, that teachers are overpaid, maan, your lucky, if you've got a degree allready. Theres no incentive for good teachers to be teachers if they are going to get paid CRAP. If they get paid less, the results are ... the worst education on the world, undeveloped country kind of education. And yes, kidds in the USA are not as smart as kidds from other countries ( we all know ) .. and thats because of the EDUCATION SYSTEM of this country, not the teachers, teachers just obey what has to be done.

The changes that ought to be made are ones that would be politically unpopular (actually, I don't think class size is even one of those problems, as I find I learn much better in a college classroom with 100 students than a high school classroom with 20), hence, Bush is not in a position to even consider them an option (unless he would put what ought to be done ahead of what he can benefit from implementing, but lets face it, he's not going to). Now, his reasoning is pretty dumb, because it's basically a false dichotomy, but I really don't think that lowering teachers' salaries is going to decrease the quality of education. Few, if any, individuals who chose a career in education do so for economic reasons, even at this juncture. So any discouragement a further reduction of salary would provide would likely have limited impact on the actual productivity of workers. The reason that teachers are being overpaid is because of organized labor (I'll forgo my usual diatribe against that). They ought to be paid the fair value of their labor, which at the moment simply is not much.

Getting into the fundamental issues behind why education has become a relatively week career sector is a bit too complex a topic for me to undertake during exam week, but I'll try to get back to you afterwards if I remember.

Cheers,

Arbiter

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Originally posted by Arbiter Getting into the fundamental issues behind why education has become a relatively week career sector is a bit too complex a topic for me to undertake during exam week

arent finals a bitch

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I know all I wanted to say is that it isn't so much a problem with the teachers as it is with the teaching program. You can have 5 times more teachers with 5 times bigger wages, it helps of course, but the teachers won't teach children anything more than they are told to, only thing is that they'll teach it better.

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Theres no incentive for good teachers to be teachers if they are going to get paid CRAP.

Can't disagree.

As harsh as it sounds, a 50% increase in teachers pay and a comparitive reduction in the amount of teachers will increase the quality of teaching no end.

If you genuinely know your stuff, why would you become a teacher when you can apply your trade elsewhere for twice the pay?

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Originally posted by Izzy arent finals a bitch

Yep. Tho I spend way more time tutoring other people than actually studying for my own finals.

Well, at least in my state ( FLORIDA ) There's no teachers, and this its causing an UPGRADE in class sizes, since theres NO TEACHERS ! ! this problem its going on all over the schools in Florida, and theres no incentive for teachers coming to Florida because of the very low salary, and teachers, are all arguing how low they are getting paid, and that they are working as how much they are getting paid, giving us horrible education. I come from a foreign country, and im PRAYING to graduate, cause its really dissapointing how bad the education system is . Nonetheless, at least in MY state, lowring salary, will only make things worst , in all ways thinkable. Id love to know which STATES you are talking about getting OVERPAID so I let my teachers know, and maybe, help me give them a .. better life ?..

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Considering the resources(or lack thereof) that teachers have to work with they do an amazing job. I mean how much can you ask a teacher to do when they have to work with 35-40+ kids at a time, and can't even get a textbook for everyone. Then they have to deal with all the kids, who just fuck around and waste everyones time. Considering all this I don't think they could do much better.