... I've noticed that in the past 2 years, people keep saying that they want epic/uplifting trance but not in the 1999 formula. Let me clarify - they don't want this phrase structure:

1. beats
2. bass
3. intro synth work
4. breakdown/silence
5. build up
6. explosion
7. main melody
8. back to square one, then once more, or twice more, depending on how long 1-7 took (optional)

I personally don't see how anything else can work. In fact, even progressive house follows they same steps. Though in progressive, it looks like this:

1. beats
2. bass
3. hi-hats, snares, jungle drums
4. different bass lines
5. random synth samples
6. a "ahh" progressive-type of vocal
7. either layer by layer goes away or complete breakdown and back to #1

In fact, techno is very similar to that. I'm listening to BK & Anne Savage - Junglize at the moment, and it's that same progression method through the song.

I've got the impression that people are complaining (not the progs or the techs, but the uplifting trancers)... they would like a different way of capturing that uplifting sound in uplifting trance, but using a different formula/build up.

Let me just say this... for DJs to mix their tracks properly accounting for phrases and patterns, producers MUST produce their tracks like this. Yes, occasionally there are tracks with no beats at the beginning (Human Evolution - Human Evolution, Project Medusa vs. Exor - Moonshine Mix 2, etc.)... but they follow the same pattern as above. The reason why the beginning doesn't have beats (and the beats kick in about 1 min later) is for the track to be an intro.

An example of another track in another genre is... Gianni & Nuw Idol - The Gates of Time (Mix 1)... it's literally the SAME type of progression and advancement with regard to phrasing and beat structure, even though it has no beats at the beginning.

The reason, AGAIN, is for the DJs to mix their tracks properly. Thats how the music sounds good in a set... if you have a different order of how the things appear in the lists above... the sets probably would lose their flow and would sound very chopped up.

So for all of you who say that you're looking for some innovation and a different way of producing trance... a DIFFERENT way of capturing that epic/uplifting sound, then I'll tell you to go produce shit yourself, because the fact is, music produced is for DJs, so they can be mixed properly and sound good in a set.

All those that criticise the "SAME" buildup portion of a song... you're asking too much to be changed because if the first min or two were not produced exactly like that, there would be no way that DJs can mix well between tracks.

Regards

I know what you mean about making tracks 'Dj friendly'.

BUT:
I am a DJ and a producer, If you call yourself a DJ you should be able to mix ANYTHING - not just be able to beat match a track designed for easy mixing.
This is why when I produce the start of the track just ends up how I feel it should start, and its up to the DJ to mix it.
However most of my tracks have a solid beat section to mix out of.

If you begin designing tracks for something then you are heading down the wrong trail because you are not producing what you want.

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quote:

Originally posted by corsten_addict ... I've noticed that in the past 2 years, people keep saying that they want epic/uplifting trance but not in the 1999 formula. Let me clarify - they don't want this phrase structure: 1. beats 2. bass 3. intro synth work 4. breakdown/silence 5. build up 6. explosion 7. main melody 8. back to square one, then once more, or twice more, depending on how long 1-7 took (optional) I personally don't see how anything else can work. In fact, even progressive house follows they same steps. Though in progressive, it looks like this: 1. beats 2. bass 3. hi-hats, snares, jungle drums 4. different bass lines 5. random synth samples 6. a "ahh" progressive-type of vocal 7. either layer by layer goes away or complete breakdown and back to #1 In fact, techno is very similar to that. I'm listening to BK & Anne Savage - Junglize at the moment, and it's that same progression method through the song. I've got the impression that people are complaining (not the progs or the techs, but the uplifting trancers)... they would like a different way of capturing that uplifting sound in uplifting trance, but using a different formula/build up. Let me just say this... for DJs to mix their tracks properly accounting for phrases and patterns, producers MUST produce their tracks like this. Yes, occasionally there are tracks with no beats at the beginning (Human Evolution - Human Evolution, Project Medusa vs. Exor - Moonshine Mix 2, etc.)... but they follow the same pattern as above. The reason why the beginning doesn't have beats (and the beats kick in about 1 min later) is for the track to be an intro. An example of another track in another genre is... Gianni & Nuw Idol - The Gates of Time (Mix 1)... it's literally the SAME type of progression and advancement with regard to phrasing and beat structure, even though it has no beats at the beginning. The reason, AGAIN, is for the DJs to mix their tracks properly. Thats how the music sounds good in a set... if you have a different order of how the things appear in the lists above... the sets probably would lose their flow and would sound very chopped up. So for all of you who say that you're looking for some innovation and a different way of producing trance... a DIFFERENT way of capturing that epic/uplifting sound, then I'll tell you to go produce shit yourself, because the fact is, music produced is for DJs, so they can be mixed properly and sound good in a set. All those that criticise the "SAME" buildup portion of a song... you're asking too much to be changed because if the first min or two were not produced exactly like that, there would be no way that DJs can mix well between tracks. Regards

Bollox, people have been mixing tunes a lot of complicated for a long time, way before the trance "formula" was invented. A good DJ shouldn't need a tune made with him in mind, he should be able to take two tunes and produce a decent transition with them regardless.

I have to disagree with you guys. Let's not turn this into a flame war though.

I admit I have no concrete proof on my theory above. But I'll draw upon the evidence that 99% of all trance/progressive tracks these days are produced in this fashion - standard 4/4 time, with BPM anywhere from 128-150 bpm. They are produced like this so they can be used in sets, whether it's PvD producing Animacion for his own set, or Timo Maas producing Der Schreiber for his own set... they all have their introduction beats or some sort of percussive or even distinct melody going at 4/4, and nothing else.

I must admit the hardest recent track to mix in, I find, is Nuw Idol & Gianni - Gates of Time (Mix 1)... it's a banging tech-trance track and it's got NO introduction beats. In fact, the beginning doesn't even follow a 4/4 time.

The problem lies in the fact that people who CRITICISE don't understand how hard it is for an artist to produce something innovative and creative without having a backbone to rely on. I want to stress the point that almost ALL trance is produced in 4/4 time, and unless you shy away from that formula, it's technically impossible to have anything different, because either way, to make it sound good, you need to have the elements that lead up to the main 'chorus', or else the track would sound too abrupt without any leadup. I can't imagine a progressive track without its buildup or an uplifting trance track with its breakdown after only 128 beats into the track. (Assuming 4/4 time of course)

The solution is to go away from a 4/4 time and try something like 8/7...it won't sound regular but since some people are asking for something different, then that would be the way to go. However, I doubt that an 8/7 counter would go well with people.

In essence, many demand a new formula that isn't 'boring' in their mind but probably would not like it if the DJs really did find a way to change the formula around. You simply can't have a 4/4 time and construct your track in any different way, (unless it's a radio mix but you don't produce a radio mix first before the original mix).

it is fairly obvious that u either don't dj, or have no idea, as djs will mix just about any tune anyway, it doesn't matter if there is an intro at the start, u just mix from where the beat starts, or if your clever... beatmatch, then fade in on the strings for a little difference

also, jungalize is hard house, not techno

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The point really isn't about me or intro beats - I'm just criticising the fact that it's near impossible to have another formula without changing your time counter - as opposed to 4/4.

And if you do that, it wouldn't be trance anymore, would it?

Anyway forget it...